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 Start gates
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843 Posts

Posted - 29/11/2009 :  15:38:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi all paraglider and delta pilots!

We need some more input on how to solve the start gates for paragliding and hang gliding. Please check this thread and give your opinions:


10 Posts

Posted - 30/11/2009 :  09:54:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Basically, XCSoar had it done pretty well. The discussion on the PG side is on track. Here are my thoughts, some of which have been covered by the PG guys and many (all?) of which are in XCSoar.
- Choose Exit or Entry type (default is "Exit" which means you leave a certain cylinder
- Times: Enter Start Time, then number of starts (integer),then start interval in minutes. If you put in 1400, 3, 15.... You'd get 3 starts, the first start at 1400, next at 1415 and last at 1430.
- Pilots starting at 1400-1414:59 would get a 1400 start time. From 1415 to 1429:59 they'd get the 2nd start time of 1415 and so on.
- Pilots leaving early get the actual time ie. 1357 or 1345
- Pilots leaving later than the last start get the last start (1430 here)
- Cylinder size should be in meters (default) or miles. User selects
- Pilots can "take" a start and then decide to return to the cylinder. The software should then reset their time as if they never left and they get whatever start time is appropriate for their next departure, using the rules outlined above.
- Noise and flashing display user selectable on start
- If Pilot starts, display switches to next WP
- If Pilot re-enters start circle, display switches back to start circle info/waypoint until he leaves again (user selectable if this is automatic or not)
- Countdown clock info box user selectable for each start clock.

- Cylinders or wedges/pies/arcs/sectors with user selectable angular size and distance. Might be Cylinder, 400 meters. Or Wedge , 400 meters, 45 deg. For Wedges you'd also need orientation relative to courseline in degrees. Default Cylinder, 400m.
- These are "entry" cylinders or wedges always.
- Auto selects next TP when cylinder is punctured.
- Chime and or flashing display marker (user selectable)

- May be a Cylinder or a Line. Cylinder default to 1Km and it's entry type always.
- Line would be normally perpendicular to courseline and user selectable distance. Default (???) Maybe 1 Km.

NAVBOXES (user selectable)
- Similar to XCSoar to include
- Time to next Start (countdown)
- Dist to Start Cylinder
- Time of Day
- Distance to Goal
- Alt Req to Goal (Mcready)
- Alt Req to Goal (BG)
- Arrival Altitude At Goal (Mcready)
- Arrival Altitude at Goal (Best Glide)
- Speed to Fly while on course (no wind using average climbs or user selectable climb rates)
- Speed to Fly to Goal (uses wind and last climb auto or user selectable climb. If using last climb auto, allow user selectable interval to average)

- should be able to quickly and easily setup waypoints and start finish info.
- VERY IMPORTANT to be able to alter easily and quickly the task after it's initially entered. (HG comps change tasks just before launch often)
- Add/Remove waypoints and or change start times or intervals... plus change start size and or finish size... etc.

In general allow user selectable but meters, Feet per minute, miles, Nautical miles, Kilometers, MPH, Knots, KMhr, are good (US comps)

Also, as I recall in XCSoar... sometimes units were too coarse? You could not select a small enough interval... I forget which but try to make
miles: .01 or better
Nm .01 or better
Km .01 or better
Meters 1
Minutes 1
FPM 10 / 50 / 100 (user select)
Kmhr 1
Knots 1

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of important details...

Take care,

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8957 Posts

Posted - 30/11/2009 :  12:07:35  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks John!
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1864 Posts

Posted - 30/11/2009 :  12:19:22  Show Profile  Visit parapenT1sta's Homepage  Click to see parapenT1sta's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Jonh, I hope you don't mind but I copied your post and pasted it on the Request Forum!

Your post is brilliant! I was searching for this information! You save me a lot of work!
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10 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2009 :  04:26:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No problem TiGuy. Glad some of it was a help.

Take Care,

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145 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2010 :  18:37:30  Show Profile  Visit danielvelez's Homepage  Click to see danielvelez's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Hello there.

Also adding on the turnpoint and start issues for hanggliding (paragliding) competitions...

As we could have entry Start cylinders, those are used when the first turnpoint after the start lyes inside the start cylinder. It`s usually the same turnpoint that works as a big radius start and a small radius turnpoint. So it's really important that you could use the same turnpoint twice on a route, with different radius, and different behaviour (bigger one, meaning start cylinder, could have a clock and an open time window with multiple start times)

Also, it's important that one could configure the radius of every turnpoint on a given task. Even that you could configure the type of turnpoint (cylinder of fai sector or german sector). As scorekeeper and task committee on several local hanggliding and paragliding competitions, we have used different turnpoint radius on the same task, in order to keep pilots safer from an specific place, or depending on the wind.
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