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 Android: the best e-ink VS the best color display
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aleit
Pulcino

Italy
41 Posts

Posted - 21/05/2019 :  18:09:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Abstract: I am comparing color and grayscale e-ink display Android devices running LK8000 to decide what works best for me.

The Nokia 8 is currently considered the best Android device with color display for running LK8000 (ref.: https://www.postfrontal.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8786&whichpage=4 ).

Since a few years, there are a variety of e-ink devices with Android OS: Yotaphone 2 and 3, Hisense A2 and A6, Boyue Likebook Mars, Onyx Boox Nova and Note, Not-eReader, etc. Of these, I consider the Yotaphone 2 to be the best because of the size and because AFAIK it is the only one with a matte finish (glossy e-ink is a contradiction IMO).

So, I got both a Nokia 8 and a Yotaphone 2 to compare them and choose which one I prefer to use for running LK8000 in a glider cockpit.

I share my findings with the forum hoping it can be useful for someone else, and willing to read other experiences and suggestions with these or alternative devices. In bold the best results.



Conclusion: the Nokia 8 display performance ranges from far superior to unreadable depending on the sun position. The Yotaphone 2 offers an average grayscale view that is guaranteed in any condition.
At the moment my favourite choice is the Yotaphone 2, because of its reliability (readability and battery life). I carry the Nokia 8 as a backup, and I intend to connect them via LKnet to use Nokia barometer data in the Yotaphone.

Possible improvements:
The Nokia would improve a lot if coupled with a sunshade and a power bank (something like this https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Tfq7WyynL._SX679_.jpg ).

The grayscale display could use a pattern (dots, dashes, crosses) to better differentiate climb from sink in the trail. For example, a line from heavy sink to neutral to heavy climb could be something like this:
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo- - - - - - - - - ------------------------ + + + + + + +++++++++##################


Photos

Without reflection:




With reflection:




Yotaphone 2 in flight (full size https://ibb.co/Z6CWw7m)


davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1583 Posts

Posted - 22/05/2019 :  10:32:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That is a very comprehensive comparison. I got a Nokia 8 earlier this year to replace my V2. Flying in the relative flat lands of the UK, hills not mountains,I turn the Lumens very high so that the terrain bleaches out, but the topology remains very visible in colour. It will run about 2 1/2 hours without external power. So far I have not found it unreadable at any sun angle. However, because the V2 is still useable, I have had this running as well, just as Flarm radar on MM5.Considering that I have found the V2 visibility satisfactorily for years, the difference between the two is remarkable, the Nokia quite readable, the V2 almost unreadable at times. Wish I could change that black background of MM5 to white.
Another remarkable difference, from tapping the desktop shortcut to being ready, V2 (Windows) 50 secs, Nokia (Android) 5 secs.
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brunotl
Pterodattilo

France
936 Posts

Posted - 22/05/2019 :  11:43:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by davesalmon
Another remarkable difference, from tapping the desktop shortcut to being ready, V2 (Windows) 50 secs, Nokia (Android) 5 secs.



the V2 CPU is 18 years old, difference is not so huge ... ;-)


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pierfax
Pterodattilo

Italy
1029 Posts

Posted - 23/05/2019 :  12:37:02  Show Profile  Visit pierfax's Homepage  Reply with Quote
for me the best color display android is xiaomi Mi5s. more than 600 nits. It seems that LG G7 is about 660 and could be also a valid choice.
about table the best is DJI cristasky in 2 different solution 1000 nits and 2000 nits. This tablet is android but needs to be cracked to use full android option.

Pier Fassina
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aleit
Pulcino

Italy
41 Posts

Posted - 26/04/2020 :  11:34:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Update to the comparison table: Yotaphone2 is now officially supported since version 7.1g https://github.com/LK8000/LK8000/releases
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aleit
Pulcino

Italy
41 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2020 :  10:02:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Color e-ink technology in now mature, this year several color e-ink devices are expected to hit the market.

The Hisense A5C seems well fitted to run LK8000: powerful, long-lasting battery, size not bulky but with relatively big screen; only the barometer is missing. It seems that the display glass is glossy, so this could be bad for reflections.
https://www.devicespecifications.com/en/model/dba35385

Another interesting device, with traditional B/W e-ink, is the Alfapilot RS https://www.postfrontal.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9119
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aleit
Pulcino

Italy
41 Posts

Posted - 22/07/2020 :  19:14:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here it is: HiSense A5 Pro CC with color e-ink display.
Some work is needed in LK8000 code to optimize the user experience ("dither" profile but with colored trail), but it's already quite beautiful:

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GenIv
Pulcino

Russia
15 Posts

Posted - 23/07/2020 :  07:42:42  Show Profile  Visit GenIv's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The A5 Pro CC does not have a pressure sensor (baro).
IPS display. 1520 x 720.
Poorly readable in the sun. Not the best choice.IMHO

Always ready
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aleit
Pulcino

Italy
41 Posts

Posted - 23/07/2020 :  09:32:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GenIv
IPS display. 1520 x 720.
Poorly readable in the sun.

You completely missed the point.
The display is e-ink, i.e. the best existing technology for readability under sunlight.
Since there's no need for backlight, the battery lasts forever.
Moreover, e-ink is not polarized, so you can rotate it even when using polarized sunglasses.
The previous picture was shot with sun shining directly over the screen (through the window). Here it is outside, in a sunny day:

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GenIv
Pulcino

Russia
15 Posts

Posted - 23/07/2020 :  10:56:59  Show Profile  Visit GenIv's Homepage  Reply with Quote
i read your post above. But I was deceived by the site where I usually look at the technical characteristics of phones.
Indeed, the display is e-in, not ips.
But is there a baro sensor?

Always ready
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andydasmith
Pulcino

United Kingdom
59 Posts

Posted - 24/07/2020 :  22:12:28  Show Profile  Visit andydasmith's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Aleit, the HiSense A5 Pro CC with color e-ink display looks very good. Like you, I've been waiting for colour e-ink to mature for a long time. I used Android LK8000/XCSoar on a Dell Streak 5 for many years but found usb connectivity through the IOIO board unreliable (my ebay IOIO boards kept blowing up while trying to recharge the Dell's battery in flight). So I moved to Kobos running usb OTG. I've progressed through Mini, Touch 1 and 2 and now Aura 2 connected through a hub to KRT2 radio, T-beam and vario.
I find the e-ink sunlight readability to be excellent.
My question is if the HiSense A5 Pro CC supports usb OTG, most high spec Android phones do these days and I want to connect 3 things through a hub. Thanks for posting the sunlight pics, very helpful
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davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1583 Posts

Posted - 25/07/2020 :  10:10:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In a syndicate DG500 we use all sorts of devices,Oudie, V2, Nokia 8, etc., all are powered directly from the glider bus, and connect to Flarm for data via a Soartronic BT module. Same in my Discus bT using a Nokia 8 (cost me about 100 refurbished). Both have been 100% reliable. (So that is a total of about 150 for as good a navigation setup as you can get, running LK8000).
I sometimes think this sunlight readability is over emphasized. I go back to early iPAQ, and Mio, certainly unreadable in direct sunlight, but we managed, because this new technology they offered was so brilliant. Most modern devices are pretty good. The V2 and Glider Guider were excellent in their day, still are quite acceptable. Just change heading a bit to get the sun off the screen, we don't normally fly one heading for long in gliders anyway.
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aleit
Pulcino

Italy
41 Posts

Posted - 25/07/2020 :  13:56:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
HiSense A5 Pro CC supports usb OTG, there is a dedicated option in system settings. There is no baro sensor.
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Fat Albert
Pulcino

United Kingdom
49 Posts

Posted - 27/10/2020 :  18:09:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Onyx Boox Poke 2 Ereader - $299

6" Colour E-ink screen (300ppi b&w, 100ppi colour), 2ghz cpu, 2gb RAM, 32 GB memory, Android 9, WiFi, Bluetooth, USB 2 OTG and, crucially, fast refresh mode (circa 100ms).

No pressure sensor but the bluetooth makes it trivial to sync with a Bad Elf PRO+ GPS & Barometer or glider vario (e.g. LX Nav V7/S80) and speakers/headset



a Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother

Edited by - Fat Albert on 27/10/2020 18:15:13
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aleit
Pulcino

Italy
41 Posts

Posted - 28/10/2020 :  08:56:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fat Albert
Onyx Boox Poke 2 Ereader - $299



Nice. Now more than ever we would benefit from user settings to enable e-ink support, "colors and dither choice should be user selectable from the settings, rather than depending on the product code that requires patches to source code" https://www.postfrontal.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9137
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brunotl
Pterodattilo

France
936 Posts

Posted - 28/10/2020 :  15:59:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aleit

quote:
Originally posted by Fat Albert
Onyx Boox Poke 2 Ereader - $299



Nice. Now more than ever we would benefit from user settings to enable e-ink support, "colors and dither choice should be user selectable from the settings, rather than depending on the product code that requires patches to source code" https://www.postfrontal.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9137




contributions are welcome ;)
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