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Coolwind
Moderator
Italy
8957 Posts |
 Posted - 15/03/2015 : 00:06:54
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| Yes they are in memory, but for the purpose of signing the IGC file also the external program accessing the shared memory should be opensource GPL 2 licensed. This is why the plugin works totally externally, run by another program and not by LK8000, and reading the file, not the memory. Reading the file is not a problem for GPL compliancy. GpsDump is not opensource, so Stein should sign a file, not a memory. This is the problem. |
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MartinB
Pulcino
12 Posts |
Posted - 15/03/2015 : 20:01:29
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| I think GpsDump will have problems reading a file written to the SD card. How can GpsDump be sure that the file hasn't been tampered with already when it reads it? Someone could manually edit the file to alter track points then write it back to the SD card. Equally because LK8000 is Opensource someone could conceivable alter LK8000 so that it altered the track points as it generated them so for example it lowered the heights above a certain height so you didn't appear to enter airspace. For the first one I was hoping that GpsDump could read the raw data from the working flash memory inside the Kobo before it was written to the SD card but that working memory copy is probably lost when you tun off the Kobo? |
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Coolwind
Moderator
Italy
8957 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2015 : 00:56:54
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The plugin with LK8000 works with an antitampering procedure based on a mutual check between the plugin itself and the LKRUN (which is not opensource either). They both check what LK8000 is doing, while running. They monitor the file, also. So if you try to change the file while running, you wont get any valid signature. Yes you get a signature, but not the correct one.
Moreover the entire stuff was written keeping in mind a possible reverse-engineering, by checking the machine code.
May I say that it works, yes, but what a loss of time to do it, and it is practically unused by 99% of people.
I say loss of time, because as a matter of fact you decide what to feed in terms of NMEA gps to the LK!
So you can feed anything to the software, and it will be validated all the way. Only, for a cheater it simply takes more time because he has to feed the entire NMEA stream to LK.
You can do the same on any other software, except on custom hardware.
I could make it more safe, by ensuring that on some dedicated, specific devices (like a V2 for example) the NMEA stream is not altered. That would make very close to a certified logger.
It is worth saying that this solution is not interesting for 99% of people, because their online contests do not require "certified" loggers, and they gladly accept any logger. If you want to cheat, there is always a solution to do it.
For declared tasks, certified loggers are NOT a solution, because you can have two or three logger with different tasks set, and decide airborne what to use, at your convenience.
I am concerned that task declaration should be managed out of a flight logger. For simple track recording things should be made easy. It is strange that paragliders have this problem in some countries, while at the same time (in UK) gliders are going in the opposite direction!! I mean in the UK it was proposed to use PNA hardware also for badges (FAI badges!!).
Anyway, I have no real idea of what contests are requiring the plugin, right now. I have no feedbacks in fact.
p.s.
Only genuine copies, downloaded from LK8000.IT (or .ORG now) can be used successfully with the plugin. We make sure it is the copy we compiled, not the one made by a user. Still, you can feed it with any NMEA stream, but it is not a matter of changing the altitude in one parameter of LK. Cheater will be doing outside LK in this case.
Correction: if you compile with Nimbus the exact genuine source, you will also get a genuine version to be used. But not a single byte should be changed in the source of LK.
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Edited by - Coolwind on 16/03/2015 03:03:06 |
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MartinB
Pulcino
12 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2015 : 09:05:17
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Hi Coolwind thanks for the detailed reply. I was interested in how it works because in the UK our national league requires that entries have signed igc files. See http://www.xcleague.com/xc/leagues/view-1.html
In the last year or so with the ability to run XCSoar on the Kobo there has been an explosion of people running Kobos but we cant use them to enter our flights in our club and national contest. With our complicated airspace the Kobo is just about the best instrument for in flight navigation.
There was a huge surge of interest when it was announced that LK was starting to be ported to run on the Kobo as it finally looked like we would be able to use the Kobo and have validated logs. When you announced that the plugin would no longer be supported this was a big disappointment. I was kind of hoping that GpsDump might be able to read the logs post flight like it does for Garmins etc and validate the igc file but from what you say I dont think that would be possible.
The plugin or its equivalent would be the only solution that would work for our national league. |
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Coolwind
Moderator
Italy
8957 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2015 : 01:51:50
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Hi Martin, meanwhile I spoke on skype with one UK representative, trying to figure out a solution.
Right now there is none. For Kobo-Linux we should rewrite the plugin, which is ruled out since we are still working on the porting to linux and we still have things to fix before developing new stuff.
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MartinB
Pulcino
12 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2015 : 10:06:00
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| Hi Coolwind thanks for the speaking to John and your reply, I will keep my fingers crossed that after the porting is finished that something can be done. I have been testing the Linux version on my Gofly and am quite impressed. I see there is a version that supports landscape mode now so will be giving that a try soon. |
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parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo
Portugal
1864 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2015 : 12:02:32
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http://vali.fai-civl.org/faq.html
FAI CIVL wrote about LK8000.
Pilot: Why is my LK8000 igc track invalid?
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Edited by - parapenT1sta on 26/04/2015 12:03:01 |
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Coolwind
Moderator
Italy
8957 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2015 : 15:19:01
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If I accomplish FAI CIVL request, which is what we have been talking about until now, then as you can read the UK people will be cut out. If we dont, you can read what may happen.
The solution is to accomplish FAI CIVL request, which are legitimates, and deal with the UK problem separately.
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rjbungay
Pulcino
12 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2015 : 12:09:14
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Paolo
Why do you state that you should deal with the FAI and then the UK league seperately?
From the post on the FAI website the suggested solutions from them will work for all leagues that require secure validation including DHV.
Copied from DHV website:-
Please note the statement on LK8000 web is wrong, saying that DHV and among many others do not require the plugin.
There are many contests like DHVXC who connect to vali.fai-civl.org for remote validation.
In result of that, any OpenSource LK8000 based IGC file might be invalid on your home contest, and on WXC as well.
It is up to LK8000 development to provide a new vali-xlk.exe which is able to validate both signatures, similar some other software will do. Or make the plugin mandatory for IGC file signatures, by simply complete removing the OpenSource key from installation package, which will then not longer confuse the pilots on 2 different signature variants for same 3-Letter code. |
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Coolwind
Moderator
Italy
8957 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2015 : 03:57:12
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FAI does not care about the key being in clear. They say "jusy give us a validator which is good for any LK8 signature".
And I have no problems to do so! OLC has it already.
But UK says "We want a non-clear signature, and its relative validator".
And I dont have any problem to provide it too (plugin plus validator).
But, and this is the point, UK shall not use the FAI validator in such case.
Because the FAI validator will validate anything, clear or non-clear keys.
I hope it is .. clear enough.
In my opinion, the solution is to have a totally separated and standalone recorder out of open source.
Which is exactly what I would like to do on linux .
But if people want to spend 5 minutes to notice what I have been dealing with on linux development in the last 4-5 months, they will notice that there was no time to do anything but fixing things with priority.
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Ben888
Pulcino
United Kingdom
11 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2017 : 21:49:06
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Hi, I'm a U.K. Paraglider so would really like to have validated igc files.
Now that we have v6.0b and ported to linux, is there any progress in resolving the issue? |
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MartinB
Pulcino
12 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2017 : 22:13:46
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| An additional piece of software for both LK and xcsoar is currently being developed to privately sign the igc files on Kobos for the UK league. Should be released shortly. |
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Ben888
Pulcino
United Kingdom
11 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2017 : 22:17:27
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| Who is developing this and where would I find this Martin? |
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MartinB
Pulcino
12 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2017 : 22:37:23
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| It's being developed by Phil Colbert (the AirAware guy) I am one of the beta testers. Once it's finished testing Phil will be releasing it to the public. Keep an eye on the Wessex Facebook page#128521; |
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Ben888
Pulcino
United Kingdom
11 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2017 : 22:44:04
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| Thanks Martin |
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Topic |
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PLUGIN NO MORE SUPPORTED