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soarAK
Pulcino

USA
74 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2012 :  00:53:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I played some old log files from last year again. I came across an issue that I will describe below.

I left a start cylinder for the first time at 13:29 then I came back to the start cylinder a minute later seeing ("In sector arm advance when ready"). I circled in the start cylinder until 13:36 at what time I left the cylinder again. The restart was not registered.

I have the files available if one of you guys would like to look at them.

I remember in the past the restart was working just fine. I run the replay at x1 speed so there should not have been any replay issues.

Thx


Edited by - Coolwind on 15/04/2012 03:49:32

Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2012 :  01:23:07  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
May someone (user) please check this? really have little time to check myself right now.
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MPusz
Aquila imperiale

Poland
683 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2012 :  11:47:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It seems that you use either 'Arm' or 'Arm Start' to advance task waypoints. In such a case you need to, and if I remember correctly, always needed to arm the task point in order to be advanced automatically. If you will use 'Auto' advancing mode you will observe a behavior like expected. Is that correct?
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soarAK
Pulcino

USA
74 Posts

Posted - 06/03/2012 :  00:55:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is what I am doing.

Once in the start sector "Advance Start"
Leave the start sector.
Come back to the sector.
The only option in Nav at this point is "Advance Turn" since I am in start cylinder I don't press the button. There is no other option to Advance start again.
Leave the start sector again, no start.

I think this must have been renamed some time ago. I remember seeing "Arm start". If I remember correctly LK8000 used to automatically restart once "Arm Start" was selected.

Thx for looking into this.
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bushav
Falchetto

103 Posts

Posted - 06/03/2012 :  02:07:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Isn't there an option for "restarting task". Sounds like that is what you are attempting.
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2012 :  02:21:04  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Right , it says Advance Turn, it should say Advance Start. But the action is correct: choose advance turn and the start is armed again, we automatic task restart. Just tested.
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2012 :  02:21:29  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Beside, Nav 2/2 offers task restart, for any need. Just to be sure.
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soarAK
Pulcino

USA
74 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2012 :  03:14:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The problem is that it is very easy to forget to "advance start/turn" again after entering back the cylinder. In such a case a valid start will not be recorded and all calculations will be messed up.

The start cylinder is usually very crowded space and there is little attention that could be given to the moving map software without compromising safety. So best is to advance start or arm start once upon start cylinder entry and then not to worry about explicitly restarting again. Software should take care of this.

I hope you see it the way I see it.

quote:
Originally posted by Coolwind

Right , it says Advance Turn, it should say Advance Start. But the action is correct: choose advance turn and the start is armed again, we automatic task restart. Just tested.


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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2012 :  09:55:32  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Then why using manual arming? If you want manual arming, you must do it manually. You cant have an automatic manual arming!
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soarAK
Pulcino

USA
74 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2012 :  13:44:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would only like to have automatic advance for start but manual advance for all other points.

Today auto option advances all way points automatically which is not good for AAT.

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soarAK
Pulcino

USA
74 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2012 :  16:17:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I guess this would be a change. Do you have a separate "flag" in code for start advance vs. turn point advance? Based on the fact that the advance turn arms the start again I would think not so in such case the implementation might not be easy.

If this is not much work please create "automatic start" option.

Thank you.

quote:
Originally posted by soarAK

I would only like to have automatic advance for start but manual advance for all other points.

Today auto option advances all way points automatically which is not good for AAT.



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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2012 :  22:12:31  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No way, what is "automatic start" ?? And then we should explain the for the rest of waypoints people should ARM their sectors??
Either you know what is ARMING a sector, or you dont.
But I am sure that most people would set "automatic start" for sure!!
We have enough options. I think pilot can spend 3 seconds to reset the task if start is not good, or to arm it back.
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soarAK
Pulcino

USA
74 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2012 :  23:07:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just looked at the XCSoar. It looks like XCSoar does it exactly the way I am proposing for it to work. You only arm once in XCSoar and if you come back to a cylinder and restart you don't need to arm again. In LK8000 we have to arm every attempt why? When would it be useful. I can't come up with any reason why another arming is necessary. Is there one?

Paolo, you always advocate usability, but in this case you refuse to see my point. There is no need to arm again and again the same start point?

quote:
Originally posted by Coolwind

No way, what is "automatic start" ?? And then we should explain the for the rest of waypoints people should ARM their sectors??
Either you know what is ARMING a sector, or you dont.
But I am sure that most people would set "automatic start" for sure!!
We have enough options. I think pilot can spend 3 seconds to reset the task if start is not good, or to arm it back.

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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2012 :  23:11:56  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I repeat: it is already working as you say. Only the message is wrong.
Quote:
it says Advance Turn, it should say Advance Start. But the action is correct: choose advance turn and the start is armed again, we automatic task restart. Just tested.
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2012 :  23:12:25  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I am keeping this as a bug only for the message issued. The software otherwise is working as needed.
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MPusz
Aquila imperiale

Poland
683 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2012 :  23:27:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I may be wrong but I think that:
- first of all the menu text is OK. It tells you to advance next turn because after passing start line the next turnpoint is a turn. To see advance start you have to click Waypoint Previous button and everything works fine. In fact a bug may be here if you click advance turn for next turnpoint and it works for start line too if you pass it (it shouldn't).
- I think that @SoarAK is asking for a new mode that we already have a few request already. The mode may be called Auto Start. It should do auto for start and finish waypoints only and Arm for all other turnpoints. It could help a lot in AAT tasks. I think it may be really useful.
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