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 GpsDump: IGC-files from LK8000 are validated
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bo.
Pterodattilo

843 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2011 :  18:04:37  Show Profile
I'm happy to announce that LK8000/XCSoar IGC files are now validated by GpsDump when saving IGC flightlog in .kml format (v 4.61). This is important to paraglider and hang glider pilots and others using GpsDump in competitions or online flight logs.

Get the latest release from
http://www.gethome.no/stein.sorensen/body_gpsdump.htm

I have only been able to test with www.flightlog.org

If someone have access to comp scoring software, please test and report here!

Edited by - bo. on 15/03/2011 20:33:05

Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2011 :  21:57:19  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage
Great news!!!


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parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo

Portugal
1863 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2011 :  10:23:35  Show Profile  Visit parapenT1sta's Homepage  Click to see parapenT1sta's MSN Messenger address
Another great news! How did you forget about the official FAI scoring software?! :)

quote:
As FS only deals with processing existing tracklog-files in GpsDump KML format you will need GpsDump for downloading tracklogs from the gps-devices (or converting existing files from IGC or other formats).

http://fs.fai.org/

http://fs.fai.org/wiki/ScreenShots

Edited by - parapenT1sta on 16/03/2011 10:27:24
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bo.
Pterodattilo

843 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2011 :  10:55:25  Show Profile
Great, thanks! I never dealt with this kind of software, so did not know where to look. Could you do some testing on FS before we announce it in other channels?
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2011 :  12:14:48  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage
Max Kellermann is accusing Stein (GpsDump) that he has violated XCSoar copyright.
Later he says "first we need to determine if GpsDump has violated our copyright".

Not clear what's going on.


Hard to say why Max is even thinking about opening such a discussion in public, as usual. Stein is giving GpsDump for free, at no charge.
Validating our IGC log is a favour to LK and XCS, not the opposite!



Edited by - Coolwind on 16/03/2011 12:18:25
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Turbo
Pulcino

34 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2011 :  12:52:02  Show Profile
Hi Paolo,

Max has simply raised the concern that GpsDump might have some XCSoar/LK8000 code inside that is licensed under the GPL. You should know best that this means that if the code is used the application that is using it needs to be under GPL too, which means open source. I can't tell myself but it seems that Max found some clues of XCSoar code being used by this application by disassembling it. If this is not the case then my apologies for the inconvenience, if it is the case we should stop the accusations on all sides and find a solution. Possible solutions are either changing the license of that particular part of our code base to another license (e.g. BSD) or relicensing GpsDump under the GPL which would make it open source. Personally I would suggest the second solution, because a free application has no real disadvantages from being open source, while it has the advantage of being attractive to other developers that might want to help. I guess you experienced the same effect yourself since LK8000 was finally released as open source again.

Turbo
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bo.
Pterodattilo

843 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2011 :  12:55:59  Show Profile
Too bad to look at it that way. Obviousy this is benefiting all parties. Stein says he looked into xcsoar source code to learn how the G-records are made (something about MD5 hash). He says he found the necessary documentation needed to write some code for GpsDump in wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Md5_Hash

I will check with Stein if he has any comments to this.
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2011 :  13:08:56  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage
Turbo, the only problem here is that before saying in public that someone has copied your code, you must be sure of it. And even better, given the fact that you want to eventually solve the problem smartly removing the gpl permissions, then a private contact with stein would have been a much safe approach.

In the past Max has been claiming copyrights on LK, finally admitting that no, it was not true.
One week ago, John here did the same for the OLC code.
Now here we are again with Stein.
I mean, what about checking these things privately, instead of doing it in public?
Because in the end, this is the only problem we have!

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Turbo
Pulcino

34 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2011 :  13:41:12  Show Profile
As I said, I personally have not disassembled anything or put any effort into finding such prove and I agree that this could have been handled a little more delicatly.

About the other copyright claims:

Max couldn't know that he was in fact not a copyright holder of LK8000 because there was a mixup about at what exact version you forked out. I won't comment on this any further.

John didn't say anything about copyright (I didn't check, so blame me if he did), he just said it would be nice to get some credit for the original implementation even if that was only just an inspiration to Mat.
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modellbobby
Aquilotto

323 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2011 :  14:09:51  Show Profile
I propose again a new Forum Area "Max's Corner" for these discussions
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2011 :  14:48:01  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage
Turbo, when you accuse someone in public of anything, you must be sure of what you say, otherwise you risk to be sued for defamation if the argument comes out to be false.

defamation (plural defamations)

1. Act of injuring another's reputation by any slanderous communication, written or oral; the wrong of maliciously injuring the good name of another

So all I am saying is: please let's check these things carefully and privately BEFORE setting them public, and I think we all agree on this.

But the reason I am replying here is that, really, I have no idea of how Stein could make IGC validated: my suggestion was that he could use the external dll of 5.2.2 but had no time to follow up. For sure, his work was in favour of us, and I thank him instead of accusing him.


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steins
New Entry

3 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2011 :  21:24:39  Show Profile
Hi,

I am Stein Sorensen, author of GpsDump.

It seems that my work has stirred up some dust.

I have downloaded a snapshot of the XCSoar source and have looked at the code to see how the Grecords were generated. Being written in C++ (GpsDump is in plain C) I didn't grasp it all at once, but noticed that the MD5 algorithm was used. I searched the net and found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD5 and http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1321.

I can't see that the actual algorithm is copyrighted, but I guess the implementation could be. On the other hand the XCSoar code does resemble the pseudocodes on the mentioned sites.

So my code does resemble that of XCSoar and the said sites. When dissassembling, the two essential tables used by the algorithm would be exactly the same. The code for opening, reading and parsing of the igc file is definitly my own.

If you like I can of course publish my MD5 code and the procedure doing the parsing and generating the Grecord.

Stein
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parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo

Portugal
1863 Posts

Posted - 17/03/2011 :  03:20:25  Show Profile  Visit parapenT1sta's Homepage  Click to see parapenT1sta's MSN Messenger address
I read from Max that GPSDUMP is not free! LOL

My wish is that LK8000 can create their own validation system! And problem is solved!

Edited by - parapenT1sta on 17/03/2011 03:27:27
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Turbo
Pulcino

34 Posts

Posted - 17/03/2011 :  08:41:49  Show Profile
@TiGuy82: Have fun talking to the OLC guys about that. They decided lately that they will charge a fee for updating or adding a validation algorithm.

@steins: I guess to take the heat of this discussion it would indeed be best to publish the MD5 code. What Max asked was essentially "What did you copy?" and since your validation works, you must have at least copied the keys, so his question was actually kinda valid. It seems that Max found some additional hints that something else might have been copied (something about function calls to initialize the keys) so I guess the easiest solution to put the dust to rest again is just to publish the related code parts. While this is happening, we are openly discussing the possibility to release our validation code under a second license that would allow you to use the code without the need to open-source your application too. I'll notify you if that discussion leads to anything useful!

Turbo
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steins
New Entry

3 Posts

Posted - 17/03/2011 :  22:11:12  Show Profile
Source code for validating the igc-files is available on my homepage.
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 17/03/2011 :  23:50:04  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage
Perfect, so now we shall all know what was Max talking about.
I have no idea how does the xcs code looks like.
Where is the copyright gpl problem with xcs and this code published by Stein, exactly? We all deserve an answer now.

Edited by - Coolwind on 18/03/2011 00:00:42
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