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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 24/02/2011 :  19:39:57  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Kalman is at a good point with new airspaces management.
Probably supporting also another airspace file format.

We shall be loading tasks from CUP files.

Optimized paths for paragliders, and get rid of AAT and similar stuff unused by them.

Mateusz is doing mission impossible, OLC.

Just wanted to let you know.

Marco from Hangar 5
Pterodattilo

Netherlands
845 Posts

Posted - 24/02/2011 :  20:37:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Goood! Using cupfiles to load tasks would be wonderfull.. this way we can setup tasks on our laptops using SeeYou desktop, save to a SD card with LK8000 on it, put the SD card in a PNA/PDA/Smartphone, and load the task in LK8000 and declare to the logger.. Or better, connect the PNA/PDA/smartphone to the PC and save directly to the LK8000 task/waypoint directory.

Big disadvantage I see with SeeYou cupfiles is that Tasks and waypoints are stored in the same cup file by SeeYou desktop, which in my case has lead to loss of some important waypoints.. this was when I used SYM, though. Since then I use a master waypointfile stored on my Laptop and generate new waypoint/task files with new names for use in SYM, and this year for the first time LK8000.



Marco
BU (PH-588)
Mini Nimbus HS7, s/n 039
http://www.zweef.nl/
Zweefvliegcentrum Noordkop, NETHERLANDS
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 25/02/2011 :  01:26:17  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Please everyone help Richard at http://www.postfrontal.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3292 for airspace issue!!!!

We also have an Hotspot issue to complete in analysis.
This stuff is due in march!!
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cyclone
Pulcino

Ukraine
64 Posts

Posted - 27/02/2011 :  23:17:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Paolo, once again ask, except for route optimization, we need different diameters of cylinders.
The following competitions - Russian Cup in Turkey on May 1
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 27/02/2011 :  23:31:23  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
2.1d will have permanent choice of different size of cylinder for paraglider. Just made it.
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parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo

Portugal
1863 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2011 :  02:22:59  Show Profile  Visit parapenT1sta's Homepage  Click to see parapenT1sta's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Coolwind

2.1d will have permanent choice of different size of cylinder for paraglider. Just made it.




Thanks Paolo!
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JPRosa
Falchetto

Portugal
112 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2011 :  16:25:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Coolwind

2.1d will have permanent choice of different size of cylinder for paraglider. Just made it.




It would be desirable for gliders too.
I've been in a competition in Spain; one task was with cylinders TP, all with different radius.

Joćo Rosa
ASW20 CL
Janus A
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parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo

Portugal
1863 Posts

Posted - 19/03/2011 :  11:38:06  Show Profile  Visit parapenT1sta's Homepage  Click to see parapenT1sta's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Joćo, In you case you just need to set AAT ON when you are setting the task.
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FlyingEye
Pulcino

United Kingdom
22 Posts

Posted - 19/03/2011 :  23:51:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Coolwind


We shall be loading tasks from CUP files.



Does this mean losing .tsk files at some future point?

Cheers,
Ian
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MPusz
Aquila imperiale

Poland
683 Posts

Posted - 20/03/2011 :  08:51:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It depends what do you mean by "losing". If you mean backward compatibility (load previous tasks) than probably yes. But I hope that will be the last case like that.
If you mean do not support it anymore and use CUP format as a native for LK8000 than I must say I thought about it but I am still not sure if that is the right way to go. I might be wrong but CUP format does not support some options that LK8000 supports now (i.e. max start speed)? What is your opinion on that?
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Marco from Hangar 5
Pterodattilo

Netherlands
845 Posts

Posted - 20/03/2011 :  14:11:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Right now in SeeYou desktop you can not add max speed, but in task properties you can set a max altitude for the start observation zone. So I do not think it will be possible for LK8000 to add this max speed info to cup file tasks, because that means they have to break the SeeYou software which is not open source.

If I was a programmer for LK8000 I would extract the tasks from the cupfile and copy them into the usual tsk format, and then work from there in LK8000. This means you still have to to adjust the *.tsk tasks in LK8000 to add missing info like max speed (and maybe more), but that would be required anyaways, also when using the cup tasks directly. In the end after a flight the flight is downloaded from the logger, and all task info must be available in the IGC file anyways (IF you have declared the task into your logger before the flight started), so analysing the IGC file in SeeYou desktop should still be possible and it should still have the all task info included (declaration VALID, waypoints turned correctly, etc). This is why I do not care so much about backward compatability to cupfiles, *.TSK tasks can be copied to your desktop as well and shown/manipulated in the LK8000 simulator if you wish.

So only use the CUP tasks as an information source to create a more advanced LK8000 *.TSK task. This gives the possibility to create and prepare tasks behind your desktop using SeeYou desktop, and load them into LK8000 by copying the cup file to the /LK8000/_waypoint directory by means of the SeeYou Mobile wizzard.

So what do you think Mpuz (and others), makes this sense or is this difficult to implement?

As I said before, I see the Tasks included in the cupfile as a big disadvantage of SeeYou, better to keep these seperated, so you can also load different tasks with different waypoint files, so you do not have to set up a task again when your waypoint file has changed (updated).

Maybe it is a good idea to think about a LK8000 desktop version, so we can prepare and analyze our flights using LK8000 desktop like we used to do with SeeYou desktop. But that is maybe something for next winter or so.

Marco
BU (PH-588)
Mini Nimbus HS7, s/n 039
http://www.zweef.nl/
Zweefvliegcentrum Noordkop, NETHERLANDS
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MPusz
Aquila imperiale

Poland
683 Posts

Posted - 20/03/2011 :  19:46:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, I think it has sense and that was my idea too. We have to be able to read CUP tasks, but if modified we will store them in our internal format. Now I have to define how that format will look. I do not want to keep old binary format any longer because it is not possible to provide backward compatibility when something new has to be added to it.
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FlyingEye
Pulcino

United Kingdom
22 Posts

Posted - 20/03/2011 :  22:55:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MPusz

Thanks, I think it has sense and that was my idea too. We have to be able to read CUP tasks, but if modified we will store them in our internal format. Now I have to define how that format will look. I do not want to keep old binary format any longer because it is not possible to provide backward compatibility when something new has to be added to it.



I was thinking it would be handy to grab some task info from the IGC file, it's a good route for those of us using LK with Condor, and who don't happen to be able to afford Seeyou (it's a lot of money in that scenario, doubtless if you have a real glider then it's probably cheap in relative terms!)

I know Seeyou sees the task in an IGC, and I know LK can (normally <g>) load an IGC, so having the task waypoints from the IGC exposed in the waypoint list would be very useful indeed. Then you can build and save an accurate version of the Condor task in LK, which right now is not possible unless you have Seeyou, and is actually a little bit fiddly even in that software too.

Might you consider accessing that data which would already be in memory once you load an IGC file? It would really help end users out in that respect. I feel it is probably ideal as in theory IGC format should be a constant format, so it would make a long lasting bridge between the two programs. There have been a fair number of failed attempts by quite a few members in the Condor user community to get that bit right. Quite frustrating as it stands right now.

Cheers,
Ian

Edited by - FlyingEye on 20/03/2011 22:57:17
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MPusz
Aquila imperiale

Poland
683 Posts

Posted - 20/03/2011 :  23:00:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
LK8000 ignores task data in IGC file while replaying it. We get only GPS fixes from IGC file.
For Condor I recommend you trying my other project: Condor2Nav (http://sourceforge.net/projects/condor2nav).
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FlyingEye
Pulcino

United Kingdom
22 Posts

Posted - 20/03/2011 :  23:31:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MPusz

LK8000 ignores task data in IGC file while replaying it. We get only GPS fixes from IGC file.
For Condor I recommend you trying my other project: Condor2Nav (http://sourceforge.net/projects/condor2nav).



OK, followed instructions and got this

"Translation START
ERROR: Please copy 'DEFAULT_PROFILE.prf' file to 'data' director"

As I said earlier, it is rather frustrating.

Thanks for trying though.

Cheers,
Ian
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FlyingEye
Pulcino

United Kingdom
22 Posts

Posted - 21/03/2011 :  00:37:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MPusz

LK8000 ignores task data in IGC file while replaying it.



I may not have explained it as well I needed to;

If I make a task, then fly it and save an IGC file in Condor, the task info is then available in a constant format, and independently of any other data being available or not as the case may be.

This results in a bullet proof method to get a task into LK from Condor, and quite possibly from other sources too. It's just a file format they happen to have in common, and in the land of GPS that isn't a bad thing at all.

LK may ignore the data now, but if LK instead chose to simply read that info, and make it available in the points list in memory then you could use it constructively. I mean, as long as you already opened the IGC, why not make that situation as useful as possible? You don't need to play the IGC to extract the task info. This is a great and rare opportunity to get lat and long etc. in an implicitly understood format too!

As far as I have been able to work out it's lines starting with the letter C and which contain positional info, the end point is duplicated in subsequent lines to end the section of data as far as I can see. Start and End are labelled and other stuff in between must be the way points making up task.

I only started looking in there yesterday and have no docs for the format but was able to spot this much already. I'd add that I've not coded for 30 years too, so it must be a fairly obvious move if I could spot it so easily. <shrug>

Can I ask that you at least consider this please?

Cheers,
Ian
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