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 Delta/Hang Gliders
 no “best alternate” for HG/PG users?
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eric.carden
Aquilotto

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 21/01/2011 :  22:56:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In playing around with v2.0a, it seems that the best alternate function doesn’t work for "paraglider/delta" users. Is this right, or am I overlooking something? I fly a hang glider and would like the best alternate function – especially with the new “multi-target” function. My main interest in LK is knowing whether or not I have safe LZs in reach when they’re too far ahead to see well enough to judge from the air. This scenario possibly cost me a state record flight during my last X-C season, which led me to LK… I’d like to use the half or full overlay and just leave the multi-target set to “B” (best alternate). That would give me giant print on screen (helpful with my small 3.5” screen) of my arrival altitude at the best alternate, and usually that would be enough information to comfortably get my head back in the air – not on the ground. And no clutter/decluttering could ever keep me from knowing my estimated arrival altitude at my best alternate.

Thanks,

Eric

Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 21/01/2011 :  23:05:29  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
BestAlternate is reserved for gliders, as requested by PG people many months ago.
If you are using LK with a fixed page of information you might consider using glider mode with your own hangglider polar, AutoMC set to Equivalent MC, and multitarget set to B.
Is this reasonable?
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eric.carden
Aquilotto

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 21/01/2011 :  23:19:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks. I'll give it a try and let you know if I encounter any "gotchas". Perhaps there should just be a "BestAlternate Function" setting (either "Enabled" or "Disabled") that anyone, regardless of glider type, could configure to suit themselves...? Of course, as long as there's a work-around, I'll be plenty happy. :-)

Thanks,

Eric
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bo.
Pterodattilo

843 Posts

Posted - 23/01/2011 :  19:20:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I cant really recall that there was a request not to have best alternates avaliable, only that the warning messages may be a bit much for pg/delta pilots..

It would certainly be welcome if the best alternates were working as an automatic search for the nearset landable.
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Allan Broadribb
Aquilotto

USA
235 Posts

Posted - 23/01/2011 :  19:59:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you do not put anything in for the best alternates it would be nice if the system automagically put in the best 3 alternates.
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zero9
Pulcino

15 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2011 :  21:34:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
HI,

I'm a hangglider pilot and I can only confirm what people above are asking for:
Please, please, please - give me the "best alternate" feature in hangglider/paraglider mode!

From my point of view, it's the most precious feature of this great device! Please keep in mind that flying a competition/high-performance glider most of the time one simply can not leave the control bar with one hand, and definitely I can't make complex inputs into a small 3.5" screen mounted on my wrist like a large watch (that's how I use the LK8000) to check out if a certain or at least "some" landing spots are within reach.
So the typical scenario for me is just configure the device (map view) before take off and leave it like this the whole flight.

For sure I could now search the whole screen if there is any of the landables green and/or shows a "reasonable" required glide efficiency (that's how I do it today), but that requires much more attention than just leaving this search to the LK8000 software (=best alternate feature) and just show me the result/warning.

Generally I don't need the LK8000 for "plain" navigation, most of the time I know the general area well enough to "find my way" - and my combined vario/GPS tells me enough flight parameters in terms of heading, airspeed etc... but the map display of this device is terrible, and it has no terrain data at all.
So the core functionality for me of the LK8000 is answering the following question:
"Can I still risk to continue down that valley or can I still risk to search for a thermal here because I am still within safe reach of a landable?"

At that moment I don't navigate or set a "target" to that landable, I even don't care where it is and what heading I would need - just to know at one glance it's there, is enough for me to stay "focussed" on getting up again instead of giving up way to early.

So I would really love to get that best alternate feature in hanggliding mode.

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parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo

Portugal
1864 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2011 :  21:54:10  Show Profile  Visit parapenT1sta's Homepage  Click to see parapenT1sta's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Paolo,

One thing is true, Hang Gliders need more space to land! We paragliders pilots can fly in places that HG cannot because they don't have enough space to land in safety.

In my opinion you should create two modes, Paraglider only and another for Hang Glider only.

Paragliders = No Best Alternate
Hang Gliders = Best Alternate
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2011 :  01:34:27  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, it also clear to me. It is not a problem to resume the BestAlternate, either for Hang Gliders or as configurable. So I'll set it back by immediate next release, somehow.
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parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo

Portugal
1864 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2011 :  03:21:37  Show Profile  Visit parapenT1sta's Homepage  Click to see parapenT1sta's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Zero9,

If I'm not wrong you need the waypoints to be set as landables... you have to create or have waypoints to the spot you usually land.

Edited by - parapenT1sta on 10/02/2011 03:26:01
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eric.carden
Aquilotto

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2011 :  11:42:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Excellent news, Paolo! Thanks.

Eric
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zero9
Pulcino

15 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2011 :  20:33:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TiGuy82

Zero9,

If I'm not wrong you need the waypoints to be set as landables... you have to create or have waypoints to the spot you usually land.




Hi,

it's very good news the best alternate feature will be availaböe soon for hanggliders.

I have understood that I have to "pre-program" waypoints that are landables. But I do this anyway using seeyou or editing the "type" of the waypoint manually.
But this is not much work and definitely worth the effort, since - in large valleys like Carinthia (Austria, Kaernten) - there are plenty of landable spots I just "don't care at all", so no need to set many landables here. But in other areas (e.g. dolomites) where there are stretches of 10-20km with just one single meadow that promises a landing without repair or worse, it's definitely worth to pre-program that spot. So due to the limited reach of a hangglider and the habit/fact that many hangglider pilots / competitions fly in the same area each year, it's not really a lot of work to create your own "outlanding catalogue" as I do.
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2011 :  23:03:34  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ok done. New upcoming 2.1b version has back bestalternate working for everybody. If para-hang gliders disable the "warning" feature inside the config safety menu, then bestalternate disappears again.
This is slightly different from glider pilots: in our case, disabling warning will still let bestalternate be calculated, and appear in the multitarget rotary.
So I am happy because no new configuration option was needed.

I am glad to see that the BestAlt is useful also to hang gliders, that need some more space to land than paragliders. In dolomiten and inside alps, landing is never assured for us!
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zero9
Pulcino

15 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2011 :  23:07:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
great - looking forward to it!

(by the way: besides hanggliders I'm also flying touring motor gliders (Dimona) - be assured, landing my competition hangglider is much more challenging for me than the TMG, because the hangglider can't slip, has no airbrakes or flaps, so there are almost no options for a last-minute glide angle adjustment; and it must be flown in a pretty precise speed envelope on final - simply because we have to land on our feet running, that limits the flare speed very significantly...)
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  02:54:03  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The 2.1b version is out, see announcement.
I know hang gliding is really hard.
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bo.
Pterodattilo

843 Posts

Posted - 13/02/2011 :  22:31:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good stuff!
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zero9
Pulcino

15 Posts

Posted - 14/02/2011 :  20:27:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Coolwind

The 2.1b version is out, see announcement.
I know hang gliding is really hard.



Hi,

maybe I'm a little bit stupid - but where can I get version 2.1b? I find only 2.0b on www.lk8000.it download area...

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