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 5.0" PNA Devices from China (Ebay)
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spillpot
Pulcino

United Kingdom
11 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2010 :  16:23:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm a new user of the forum and an early solo gliding pilot currently flying my clubs K6cr. I've been using XCSoar on a Navigo 3.5" PNA successfully and have just loaded LK8000 v1.20d. My initial impression is that the interface is better and LK8000 looks like an excellent piece of software. Looking forward to the release of 1.22

I'm looking to find a larger screen device and have seen a multiptude of 5.0" PNA devices on ebay, all originating in China. I've also read various posts on this forum where people have questioned operation on CE 6.0.

There are 2 devices I'm interested in. They look the same but seem to have different hardware specs.
The first http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320561403919&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
The second
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290456717287&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

From what I've read LK8000 is more likley to work on a CE 5.0 device than 6.0, although success on 6.0 seems to be high. So do you think I should go for the higher specification device (faster processor, Win CE 6.0, slightly smaller size, more internal RAM and an integrated 2GB internal Flash memory) or play safer and get the Win CE 5.0 device?

Also interested to hear from anyone who's used one of these with LK8000 and how you unlocked it.

davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1583 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2010 :  19:04:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you look on Paolo's bware site, you will see that he says that LK8000 works well on the Chinese PNAs, and on CE5 and 6.
I am currently using an iPAQ 314, but have just ordered a Galileo 5", so hope to get it in a few days, and see if it is as good as, or better than the 314.
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2010 :  20:09:39  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Let us know the screen visibility under sunlight of the Galileo, Dave.. many of us are considering it as an alternative to the 314. It should be also capable of providing an rs232 port on the miniusb connector, like the 314. All PNas supporting TMC service with external hardware do..
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davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1583 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2010 :  20:25:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Will do when I get it.
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spillpot
Pulcino

United Kingdom
11 Posts

Posted - 27/07/2010 :  11:19:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought this looks like an interesting device:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270610512071

A high resolution 5.0" screen 800x480
Atlas V 600Mhz CPU
4GB Internal RAM
128MB for Apps
and comes with a small anti-glare sun shade arrangement.
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HarryG
New Entry

Netherlands
4 Posts

Posted - 28/07/2010 :  09:11:10  Show Profile  Visit HarryG's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I am using the 5" HLLY Navi 750 for several months now. works bug free only issue is no comm port. They offer a version with bluetooth though

Visbility is goog but not excellent, comparable with the old ipaq's

http://www.hllyelectronics.com/html/fm_transmitter_1_130.html

5.0" GPS Navigation System

New Maps USA+CA+EU
More than 50 country maps!

WinCE 6.0 SYSTEM CPU:500Mhz
RAM: 128M More Fast!!!
PolNav Software, Simple Nav
High end Aluminium Case
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HarryG
New Entry

Netherlands
4 Posts

Posted - 28/07/2010 :  09:15:20  Show Profile  Visit HarryG's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yep forgot to mention one disadavantage: Be aware that a glider cockpit remains rather narrow and there were situations that the big 5" device was bothering me during flight.
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Marshallman
Pulcino

62 Posts

Posted - 28/07/2010 :  20:41:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I honestly think, that in the not to distant future, we will be using LK8000 mounted in the panel of our gliders. WE just need someone to develop a panel specific case ;-)

Regards
Mike

G-DJMD
G-BMMP

Edited by - Marshallman on 28/07/2010 20:47:33
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 28/07/2010 :  21:49:43  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Triadis has a nice hardware, probably with the best screen, but at a cost... over 2500e.
Anything good will cost well over 1000 Euro. I think we should consider ereaders with greyscale lcds as well. Or get used to the fact that between a 100$ PNA and 1500$ panel there's nothing..
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flyingMonkey
Pulcino

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 29/07/2010 :  00:35:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This question is a bit off topic. When I started ignoring the XCSoar forum, there was some talk about Android compatibility. It that something that could happen here? I know that some of the new Android phones have pretty good sunlight readable displays, along with powerful processors and higher resolution. I think I've seen some android tablets that were a good bit cheaper than the 1000e prices. I also know that porting to a different OS is not trivial. If you would accept it, there are plenty of us on this forum that could help.

Ed
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 29/07/2010 :  01:33:01  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
LK8000 is developed under Linux. So I love the idea to use entirely linux as main OS. Android would be ok.

As far as I know, xcsoar has not been ported to android, but the lead developer said that by 2011 it will be ported.
My concern is that before "porting" anything, you need to make it run flawlessy and bugless on the main platform. Because I don't want to be asking myself, during porting, if a problem is caused by the new platform or it is also in the old one.

I can port it to Android or any other platform, once I am done with the 2.0 and we have found suitable hardware that make it worth the job.
But I don't think it will be necessary, in my opinion.

Because if someone is going to invest money to create an hardware platform with a valid sunlight readable screen, then the cost of an operating system is irrilevant.
This is not mass-market. Mass market is made of chinese 50-100$ devices.
Should I develop some hardware, I would make it all the way a simple platform, with optionals, running vanilla Windows CE. Once I want to sell my platform, I want that anyone can buy it, to use it with Winpilot, SeeYou, GpsLog, Lk8000, XCsoar, etc.

I haven't seen Android devices that are worth to be considered a real alternative.
I have seen LX8000, and that's my idea of LCD. We need 1000-1500 nits. We only have 400 right now. LX8000 is a masterpiece. LX9000, with the bigger screen, is even better, no rivals. But they cost like a vintage glider!

We do have an alternative solution, though. Instead of thinking about a standalone compact all-in-one device, we should think about a unit where CPU and video are separated.
So I am thinking about such a device, running a real VGA, choosing a good VGA screen with at least 1000 nits. It is going to cost less than 1000 euro, with incredible performance.
Power consumption is no more an issue: solar panels, or 9A lead batteries are just cheap and common nowadays. I don't care about Watts, I can bear with a device eating 15-20W. All I have to do is buy another 30$ battery.
During this winter I'll be probably working on such a project.

And finally, I am keen on thinking that VMware is going to run on Android as it is doing on linux already. So LK8000 can already run on a virtual machine running XP. Because, let's not forget it, it is compiled for both CE and Windows32 OS, and Windows32 is running perfectly under linux with VMware, which is also FREE.


Edited by - Coolwind on 29/07/2010 02:36:49
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davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1583 Posts

Posted - 29/07/2010 :  09:28:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is a device being sold in the UK called AWARE. It is a joint venture between the manufacturer and NATS, so it has official backing, with the intention of preventing controlled airspace violations by GA traffic. It is a simple moving map selling at 150 for the basic version which comes with UK ICAO 1:500,000 charts, and with free downloadable airspace changes for life. I checked with the manufacturer when it came out, and it has a Windows CE operating system, and SD slot, so it should be possible to put LK8000 on it.
It is therefore designed for use in aircraft, but so far I have not found anyone who uses it, so I don't know how visible it is in sunlight. It has a 4.3" screen.
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D-2402
Pulcino

Germany
26 Posts

Posted - 29/07/2010 :  15:28:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[
quote:
Originally posted by Coolwind

...
So I am thinking about such a device, running a real VGA, choosing a good VGA screen with at least 1000 nits. It is going to cost less than 1000 euro, with incredible performance.
Power consumption is no more an issue: solar panels, or 9A lead batteries are just cheap and common nowadays. I don't care about Watts, I can bear with a device eating 15-20W.



Have you ever seen flymap? (check our www.flymap.com). They have at least the screen right. Unbelievable good. It's right now for motorpilots - basically a moving map with an ICAO map and many useful flight planning function. Their system runs embedded windows - which probably means LK8000 would work. I was thinking in exactly the same direction as you. Which processor hardware would you pick?

cheers
-tb

Unix is a registered trademark of AT&T. AT&T is a modem test command.
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 29/07/2010 :  16:25:57  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
That's www.flymap.net . Very nice hardware, but 6.4" are too much! 5" would be perfect.
An LX8000 is 3.5 inches I think.
I haven't still looked around for mainboards, but the choice is wide.
Anything with a 600Mhz CPU will do, but probably I'll look for a 1Ghz CPU.
I am planning 3D features for LK, and real time routing, and these features require a lot of CPU power.
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D-2402
Pulcino

Germany
26 Posts

Posted - 29/07/2010 :  17:05:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep, right. I have recently seen someone use a MIO 7' in a glider - hmm, looks cool but pretty big. I agree 5" would be perfect. The problem is the screen. So far I have not found much with many nits, 5" and reasonable price. Would you think 800MHz is sufficient? Would you recommend Linux + VMWare or XP?

cheers
Torsten

Unix is a registered trademark of AT&T. AT&T is a modem test command.
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mathem
Pulcino

Sweden
6 Posts

Posted - 30/07/2010 :  00:30:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by spillpot

I'm a new user of the forum and an early solo gliding pilot currently flying my clubs K6cr. I've been using XCSoar on a Navigo 3.5" PNA successfully and have just loaded LK8000 v1.20d. My initial impression is that the interface is better and LK8000 looks like an excellent piece of software. Looking forward to the release of 1.22

I'm looking to find a larger screen device and have seen a multiptude of 5.0" PNA devices on ebay, all originating in China. I've also read various posts on this forum where people have questioned operation on CE 6.0.

There are 2 devices I'm interested in. They look the same but seem to have different hardware specs.
The first http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320561403919&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
The second
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290456717287&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

From what I've read LK8000 is more likley to work on a CE 5.0 device than 6.0, although success on 6.0 seems to be high. So do you think I should go for the higher specification device (faster processor, Win CE 6.0, slightly smaller size, more internal RAM and an integrated 2GB internal Flash memory) or play safer and get the Win CE 5.0 device?

Also interested to hear from anyone who's used one of these with LK8000 and how you unlocked it.



Ok, first of all, yes these devices are dirt cheap and there is a reason why... they are totally useless in sunlight, works kind of ok in a car but in direct sunlight it's almost impossible to read (this applies to the first device spillpot lists, i have one so i know...)and if i'm not misstakes this is the same device that Silent Flight sells....
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