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 LK8000 International Support
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 digifly telemetry support
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thrmaln
Pulcino

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  08:14:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,

First off I should introduce myself. My name is Marc Webster and I am currently an H2 flying in the Los Angeles area. I am new to HG having moved from Sailplanes since it is a bit more accessable to where I live. I am still a member of my sailplane club (SCDSA) but lately it has taken a back seat to HG. I am also a member of the sylmar hang gliding association as well. Anyhow, I found this site due to wanting to set up a flight computer for the HG. I currently have Soaringpilot running on a Palm Tungsten but I am only using it for altitude info and rough information since i have yet to buy a vario. I am considering purchasing a Digifly Cartesio Pro BT which has 10 times per second output of telemetry via Bluetooth and I am curious if I can use it with LK8000 to take my variometers information into account during calculations. I see you already are doing this with the flytec devices and am curious if you have tried it with the Digifly. Another option I am considering is buying a copy of SeeYou, since many of my sailplane friends are using it, but I'd prefer to go with a cheaper option if possible. I would also like an option to be used in sailplanes as well so I can use it in both.

Also is LK8000 free like XCsoar? if not any idea what the estimated cost will be once out of beta? I'd be interested in being a beta tester if it looks like it will work with the digifly vario.

On another note, I also fly condor and am curious if i can use LK8000 with condor to get familiar with it.

Take care,

Marc

parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo

Portugal
1864 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  11:00:08  Show Profile  Visit parapenT1sta's Homepage  Click to see parapenT1sta's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Welcome Marc!

In my opinion you should buy Flymaster F1 to use with PDA, is one of the best GPS/Vario Bluetooth around. Most of paragliding pilots use it. LK8000 has full support for Flymaster F1.
http://www.flymaster.net/Products/FlymasterF1module/tabid/91/Default.aspx

And about LK8000, is and will be free! I only think that Paolo should create a option for a donation! He well deserve it!!

If you you want to be a beta tester read this topic: http://www.postfrontal.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2940

Edited by - parapenT1sta on 02/12/2009 11:06:25
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  12:51:41  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
LK is free.
Digifly sending sentences at 10hz? What for?
Do you read your instrument at 10hz or do you fly on the HG? hehe.
LK on PC version, which is faster than a 400mhz PDA of course, can go up to 5-6 hz and more.
Normally, 1hz is far enough. Reason: in 1/10th of second nothing changes during flight. Really almost nothing. If you are going at 120kmh theorically your position may have changed if you are going straight by 3.3m . Sadly, your GPS fix may not detect such a small movement before a full second has passed.
I have no Digifly instruments, but the F1 by flymaster seems really good to me.

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thrmaln
Pulcino

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  19:30:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Coolwind and TIguy,

Thanks for the great reply. I had seen the F1 a few months back and thought but was unsure what software could use it so I passed it by and continued looking and then found the Digifly. Luckily I have yet to buy anything and am in the research process, so shoudl I decide to go with an LK8000 solution then the F1 makes sense. However I am curious how it is integrated with an HP PNA. Is the GPS on the PNA disabled and all info is coming form the F1, or is the F1 just adding the vario and pressure info into the PNA for calculations and the PNA GPS is used? When the F1 is used does the PNA give a beeping tone to signal lift and sink? IS the F1 connected via bluetooth or cable to the PNA? If I were to go this route, is the 310 or 314 the best to use? ANy other brands or models to consider? Sorry for all the questions, but this has me very excited...

Are there maps and airspace data available for the USA? In Soaringpilot I just downloaded a CAB file from soaring.net which works well. However the moving map on the PNA is much nicer then what I get with soaring pilot.

In regards to being a beta tester, I read the thread and there is not a contact for HG. I am in the USA so should I just contact the USA Sailplane contact. Chances are at some point I will have this in a sailplane since I still fly occasionaly, but I am finding that HG suits me better for why I like to fly. Flying XC and landouts are less stressfull when you can set down in just about any field. I have yet to try it in the HG yet due to being relatively new, but I know it will have way more options then I ever had then in the sailplane.

As for donations, I agree as Paolo should be rewarded for all this hard work.

Take care,

Marc

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parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo

Portugal
1864 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  20:58:27  Show Profile  Visit parapenT1sta's Homepage  Click to see parapenT1sta's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Hi again!

I Don't use 310 or 314 but you can ask paolo, he has one. I think you can connect the F1 using a serial cable. F1 with bluetooth off has more battery life.

About maps, I'm making "specials" maps for paragliding, you can take a look at: http://www.postfrontal.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3109 , but I download them from: http://xcsoar.dd.com.au/cgi-bin/terrain.pl and I change the waypoints for the paragliding/delta take-offs and landings, but the airspace file is included without any change.

If you just want the airspace file, you can download the map for the hole USA then extract the airspace file from it.

Try to contact the pilot from USA to get you beta version. 1.18 will be released very soon! With many new GREAT features! ;)
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thrmaln
Pulcino

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  22:03:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey TIGuy,

If your not using a PNA, what are you using? Ipaq? Are you using an F1? If so how does it display the typical vario info on the LK8000? Does it have a graph like a flytec or Digifly? Does the input device beep like a standard Vario?

Thanks again,

Marc
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parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo

Portugal
1864 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  22:14:15  Show Profile  Visit parapenT1sta's Homepage  Click to see parapenT1sta's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I use a PDA, Dell X51 that I bought on ebay.

Flymaster beeps and LK8000 shows the information in an analog and digital vario, this is one of the great new features on LK8000 1.18: http://www.postfrontal.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3017&whichpage=3

Edited by - parapenT1sta on 02/12/2009 22:16:10
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bo.
Pterodattilo

843 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  22:17:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Marc,

I also have the F1, with ipaq hx4700. Im using bluetooth, as this is easiest and safest, i dont have to worry about breaking the serial connector, which is a 3,5mm jack plug, kind of vulnerable. Battery capacity is no problem on the F1, with or without BT. But any PDA/PNA will need external battery. You will find something on that topic in this forum.

The F1 provides an audible vario, by the way, but it has no display. LK does not have vario sound.

regards
bo

Edited by - bo. on 02/12/2009 22:18:29
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  22:20:36  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote

But that's the first version only... then they wanted a 16 led vario, so this is the current one (with all leds lit for demo).
It is very good looking, indeed, also during car driving. People is always asking me what the hell are those leds .. and I say "speed radar detection, from japan" .. "cool! I want one.."

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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  22:22:35  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Actually I would add VOICE for reading values when necessary, not a sound..
Sounds were made when voice synth were too expensive.
But nobody wants either sounds or voice..
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parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo

Portugal
1864 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  22:30:09  Show Profile  Visit parapenT1sta's Homepage  Click to see parapenT1sta's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
About bluetooth, we only have to be careful to Turn On the F1 device before open LK8000 and turn off F1 after shutdown LK8000.
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thrmaln
Pulcino

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  22:46:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow what great and quick responses. How cool is the internet that I can converse with people on the other side of the world.

Ok so now I am really interested in going this route so long as I can load the terain and Airspace files which I am sure will not be an issue. Now a question to those using LK8000, if you were starting from scratch would you go with a PDA or a PNA? Why?

I like that the PNA has a larger screen, but still have not heard if it is using the F1 GPS or if the PNA's internal GPS is used. However the PNA is larger and the screen is in Landscape and the PDA screen is in Portrait. Any pros and cons between each setup? Both PDA and PNA are quite cheap used so I may just buy both, but curious which most prefer. Can the PNA connect via bluetooth or is it connected with a cable. I know that with a PNA I have the bluetooth option which is a selling point if the PNA can not do it.

Oh my so many questions...
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bo.
Pterodattilo

843 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  23:08:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Most PDAs can also have landscape mode. If its not avaliable by default, there is a software to do it (http://www.nyditot.com/Home.asp)

BT should not be a problem with PNA, but I havent tried.

You can set up two different devices in LK, defined by the com port that is used (from BT, serial cable or internal GPS). So you should be able to choose the GPS source.

PNAs are bigger, and some are brighter. Thats an important issue to check before you buy. MIO Moove is another popular PNA, by the way. See if you can search for this device in the forum.
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parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo

Portugal
1864 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  23:14:00  Show Profile  Visit parapenT1sta's Homepage  Click to see parapenT1sta's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I prefer PDA because some PNA you have to find some way to hack them, and if you have PDA, you just need to install the software and that's it! ;)

PDA screen is also landscape, you just have to setup it. If you find a PDA with old windows mobile, you can use a software to force to rotate the screen: http://www.postfrontal.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2946
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nosbig
Pulcino

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2009 :  16:59:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings Marc,
I have been using LK8000 on a Dell Axim X50 and also on a Navigon 2100 Max. I sent the Navigon unit back for technical issues (not related to LK8000 .. as a matter of fact .. LK8000 ran better than the native Navigon software!). The screen on my Axim X50 is a bit challenging to read in bright sunlight even with screen brightness set to max but the unit works seamlessly with LK8000. I am also waiting for a Mio C320 to arrive any day now so that I can do some comparisons (reports from Allan Broadribb are that the Mio C320 works very efficiently with LK8000). By the way, Allan has been a great help with getting hardware/software set-up properly. The fine autumn weather here has now turned to snowstorms so my testing for a little while will be behind the steering wheel of my truck rather than on my delta glider.

Side topic: I also vote for a PayPal account for sending donations to Paolo (writing complex code probably isn't painless!)
...:::JG
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thrmaln
Pulcino

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2009 :  20:09:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello All,

So I did some more research last night and both the Dell X51v PDA and HP310 are quite cheap used. I may just buy both to see which I like better. I need a PNA anyhow for my car. If I buy a HP310 is the LK8000 software an add on, or do I have to wipe the car navigation data off the HP310? Id like to be able to use it for both if possible. The large screen is nice on the 310, but being landscape it shows whats to the sides of the glider when what is more important is whats ahead. so portrait on the X51v makes sense.

I do have some Flymaster f1 questions. Their website is seriously lacking in information. It mentions the ability to also have wireless airspeed indicators, but I don't see it sold on their site. Is there a wireless speed sensor available? Is it just for furure expansion? I suppose any calculations are based on GPS ground track rather then actual airspeed. If the LK800 could read the Bluetooth info off the Digifly Cartesion then it would have airspeed info if an airspeed sensor is used. Paolo not to add more work for you, but after looking the specs over on the Digifly telemetry output, do you think it could be integrated to work like the F1? Is airspeed info worth the hassle? I also have a hall airspeed sensor and can just continue to use that as well.

TIGuy I think you said you use a flymaster F1. How do you like it? I suppose support here in the USA would be an issue for me since it seems that it is not widely used here.

Thanks again everyone,

Marc
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