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 LK8000 International Support
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 AAT formula
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ccks3w
Pulcino

Sweden
16 Posts

Posted - 17/12/2012 :  14:23:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi developers, first many thanks for a very nice software - really appreciate it.
I am using LK8000 ver3.0d for competition gliding and have noticed a bug i AAT calculation.

The TskSp presented is calculated with reference to turnpoint center ( as for Assigned speed tasks ) which is wrong for the AAT computation. TskSpAv is also wrong.
TskCov is correct, LK manages nice each km flown inside the Area. So it must be possible for the software to compute correct TskSp in AAT mode by simply dividing TskCov by AATime used, or am I wrong ? Also be advised; that if actual AATime used is less than the minimum AATime, then the minimum AATime should be used for computation and if the actual AATime is greater than the minimum AATime, the actual AATime should be used for speed computation. This is according to FAI rules.
Hope for a fix as season is coming closer.....

Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8930 Posts

Posted - 17/12/2012 :  15:03:02  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
thx
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ccks3w
Pulcino

Sweden
16 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2013 :  20:31:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi again,
Any news on this fix ?? Didn't see any updates on this issue in the latest few version updates - anybody can shed some light on the subject ?
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Javelin
Pulcino

11 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2013 :  16:26:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,
Thanks for the great software! Really nice.

I am wondering if this issue has been fixed yet? I did not see where it was corrected, or perhaps I missed it?

We fly many AAT these days and having this calculation corrected would be really helpful.

Thanks again for this superb program!
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sverre@awion.dk
Pulcino

Denmark
10 Posts

Posted - 17/07/2013 :  22:33:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
HI,

I've been using LK8000 for AAT a lot at EGC2013 this year, and I think I've found some bugs:

1) Minimum distance on rest of AAT task is not calculated correctly, it is much to low. As a consequence, the minimum speed possible to fly on the rest of the task is way to low as well, I guess that the first numer is used to calculate the second.
When setting the targets to -100% for all remaining sectors, the calcualted distance on the rest of the task is correct, but AADMin is still to low. Today, with almost 150 km back to the field, I had a AADMin value of 64 km.

2) The value indicating how arrival is with respect to the set task time does not update correctly. We were late home today, and with almost 100 km to go, and 25 minuts to do it in, I still had an indication of arriving only 4 minutes to late.

As I've discovered that the values "Remaining Distance on Task", "Task speed achieved" and "time to go on AAT" are correct, I've used these values and an old fashion calculator to estimate the arrival times an how deep to go in sectors during this competition.

I think that LK8000 is a great tool, and is quite ready for ordinary speed tasks, but the AAT functionality needs some looking into ;)

br,
/Sverre Eplov
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ljamarco
Pulcino

Brazil
23 Posts

Posted - 24/07/2013 :  06:45:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sverre,

Iīve been using LK8000 for AAT a lot here in Brasil. Iīve noticed also some issues.

In your situation, "how deep to go in sectors", I always used the AADtime, and the function optimize in the task calculator screen, wich reposition the mobile turn points inside the sectors, in order to arrive 5 minutes past the AAT time. It works pretty well for me.

But, I donīt know if you are also using a type o cylinder finish radius (here we use 3km), and all the calculations for arrival altitude, time, and even the AADtime, AATime, etc, are calculated for the center of the cylinder instead of the border (what would be correct).

Letīs wait for some info from LK, because AAT functionality really needs some attention.

Thanks,

Jamarco
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Javelin
Pulcino

11 Posts

Posted - 21/10/2013 :  04:14:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For AAT, the start time is the time when the start cylinder is crossed, which LK8000 does perfectly.

However, the distance calculation should also start at that same point; the point that the start cylinder is crossed. Instead, the distance calculation in LK8000 starts at the center of the start cylinder. This causes an error in speed and total distance calculation by including the distance covered before actually starting the task.

Also, adding "start out of the top" of the cylinder functionality would be welcomed greatly.

LK8000 is a great program and does most things really well. If the AAT functionality could be improved, it would be very hard to find a program to top it.

Many thanks to all that have worked on it!
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valsoar
Pulcino

13 Posts

Posted - 27/06/2014 :  12:46:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have installed and now flying with v5, i find the same issues remain. AAT time starts correctly when exiting the cylinder but task distance covered and calculated speed still reflect the center way point itself. Is this bug on the radar for fix anytime soon?

Thanks!

P.S. I am loving version 5 being able to click on way points on the map and add them to a task is great for MAT's. Thanks to everyone for all the hard work.
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muanyag
Pulcino

17 Posts

Posted - 29/03/2016 :  10:59:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello, is this still an issue?
Thanks.
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billuart
New Entry

Belgium
3 Posts

Posted - 17/05/2017 :  10:09:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I have also a few problems with the AAT on version 5.0a of LK8000.
To fly correctly an AAT, I would need three additional parameters :
a) The time remaining before the end of the AAT time. I found the parameter AATime. This parameters seems working perfectly :)
b) The task speed computed since the beginning of the task. In other words, the distance currently travelled over the elapsed AAT time : I found TskSp or TskSpAv or TskSpI. I really don't know which one to use. I tested the parameter TskSp but I remarked, doing a simulation, that this parameter increases exponentially when climbing into a thermal (up to 400 km/h), which is completely wrong according to me.
c) Based on the task speed (parameter b)) and the remaining distance to fly before crossing the finish line, I look for a parameter that would give on many time I will arrived before or after the end of the AAT time. I found the parameter AAdT but this parameter is remained constant to 23h00 during all the simulation. Probably an improper use from my side or simply a bug.

In contrast, the parameter AAVtgt (task speed needed on the last portion to arrive at the end of the AAT time) is working perfectly according to me and could be really useful in AAT too.

I'm probably using the wrong parameters for the functionalities that I'm looking for. Do someone know which parameters I should use to get what I want ? Did someone else encounter the same issues ?
It could also be a bug. In this case, do someone know if those have been fixed in version 6.0 ?

Thanks in advance for the answer.
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8930 Posts

Posted - 17/05/2017 :  13:21:38  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
please upgrade to the latest version just to be sure. then concerning use of info boxes did you check the help available inside lk for each info box?
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billuart
New Entry

Belgium
3 Posts

Posted - 17/05/2017 :  18:15:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks you very much for the answer.

I have a competition beginning soon, so I would prefer to not upgrade to the latest version in order to not loose all my settings. But I will all the same do it to be sure as you said.
I didn't find the help available inside lk for each info box. You mean there is a help inside the software itself ? When I go to Config->systems settings->Aux Info Box and I scroll between all the choices, I don't have any help box on which to click.

Philippe

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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8930 Posts

Posted - 17/05/2017 :  22:15:12  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The help button is available once you click on the item selection and highlight a choice. You have individual explanation for each choice.
You can keep v5 it is very stable don't change software when you have a competition ahead . Unless the software has a problem of course.
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billuart
New Entry

Belgium
3 Posts

Posted - 18/05/2017 :  18:15:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the answer Coolwind ;)

The individual explanation for each choice is only available on version 6.0. I checked those explanations boxes and tested the version 6.0 and :
1) For parameter TskSp and TskSpAv, the explanation seems to be the same. Actually, I can't understand the difference between those two parameters. Besides, it is explained that those two parameters are compensated with altitude. Does someone know what does it mean ? It could explained why when I climb abruptly in the simulation, those two parameters increase exponentially. Does someone know how those two parameters are computed exactly ?

2) For parameter AAdT, I remarked that its value changed with the MCready setting but I can't figure out how it impacts the computation of the parameter. And when I set MC to 0.0, the value computed is 23H00 ? Strange... I don't understand also the impact of the MC setting and how this parameter is computed.

Philippe
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