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StoneLaughter
Pulcino
United Kingdom
6 Posts |
 Posted - 31/05/2011 : 07:47:00
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Hi...
Are there any plans to port this software to the Android OS please?
Thanks |
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Coolwind
Moderator
Italy
7466 Posts |
Posted - 31/05/2011 : 10:42:50
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Yes. There are threads already talking about this question.
We shall start bringing LK 3.0 to android next year.
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StoneLaughter
Pulcino
United Kingdom
6 Posts |
Posted - 31/05/2011 : 23:54:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Coolwind
Yes. There are threads already talking about this question.
We shall start bringing LK 3.0 to android next year.
Thank you Sir :) |
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johng
New Entry
4 Posts |
Posted - 20/07/2012 : 13:37:58
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As my other post was deleted, maybe THIS is the right place to post my question:
Any news on this?
(And yes, I used the search engine) |
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AlphaLima
Moderator
Germany
826 Posts |
Posted - 20/07/2012 : 14:18:23
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| No no news on it, we will start porting next year! We don't know when exactly and we don't know how long it takes but we're aware you want it pretty soon. |
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JBlyth
Pulcino
Australia
85 Posts |
Posted - 20/07/2012 : 14:46:54
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quote:
Originally posted by AlphaLima
No no news on it, we will start porting next year! We don't know when exactly and we don't know how long it takes but we're aware you want it pretty soon.
I have a funny feeling the same thing was said about this time last year - or was it longer ago than that ;-)
Hopefully people's opinions (on all sides of the argument) will be given more respect in this thread?
All the best to everyone
John |
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Coolwind
Moderator
Italy
7466 Posts |
Posted - 20/07/2012 : 14:48:41
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I'd like to point out that so far no developer has considered dedicating time (in the past or for the future) to port LK to another OS.
So far, in fact, I have been alone doing this work, in parallel with normal software activity.
Compared to 1 year ago, LK is now no longer depending on DLL for Grecord validation, on Windows Registry (and we have a hell of good profiles, let me add), on a fixed screen orientation (can dynamically resize and change orientation), etc.
Personally I agree with the other developers.
Now let me explain something. If someone comes on this forum and says I - we are blind people not understanding what the people want, I can get angry for more than a reason.
1. The code is open source. Can you do it yourself?
2. I depends on what kind of pilots need the porting, really.
Condor pilots normally want it on their phones. Forget it, I dont give a damn for Condor simulator, LK was not thought for Condor: the user interface is made for real flight situations, not for hangar-desk use.
3. It depends on how good is the smartphone hardware compared to the newest devices (Holux and ODHitec), which also comes quite cheap.
4. There is people using old PNAs that dont want to buy a new device, but never compared their smartphone to them. They have no idea, so they speak nonsense not having a real idea of what is the difference. To this people I can only say: try to get one of these device from a friend, and you will not be talking about another device anymore.
5. A lot of time has been spent in the last year to bring people these new devices at this incredibly good prices. I too have dedicated a lot of time. These devices are not here for no particular reason: they are here because we have been dealing with manufacturers (not only distributors) for a long time. The same goes for GliderTools, manufacturing cables etc.
6. Personally, I believe that Garmin is the example to follow, and I want to follow them on many good things:
A) Simplicity
B) Dedicated hardware
Since I decide myself how to invest my time, and I dont have to justify it (except that me, ulli, bruno, kalman, mat , richard etc have always been discussing all of this by mail, and we do all agree on the final purpose).
7. Despite of what someone may believe, LK8000 is widely used and accepted by pilots, and many thousands people is still downloading and installing it on PNAs. So it is out of any question the fact that we do have a large audience appreciating our strategy, and this audience using old PNAs they bought for a few dozens dollars have a choice to upgrade to something definitive for many years. I am confident this will happen. Pilots with no money to spend for a 200 euro PNA will still be able to use their android phones with other software.
8. Windows Phone 8 is coming, and it supports native development. It seems pretty easy to port LK there, and immediate.
9. No matter of windows 8, I am still cleaning up code, toward porting capability. But I do this alone.
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johng
New Entry
4 Posts |
Posted - 20/07/2012 : 16:38:43
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Thanks for your statement!
Nice to hear there is progress towards new platforms and OSes. Could you please guide me to more information regarding your new-hardware efforts?
AL: Sounds good, you've got more info than Coolwind?
---
@Coolwind: I did not want to hurt you, but it's not okay to just delete
or edit other peoples posts. This makes ME angry. There are different
ways to deal with that. |
Edited by - johng on 20/07/2012 16:39:22 |
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davesalmon
Pterodattilo
United Kingdom
900 Posts |
Posted - 20/07/2012 : 18:35:23
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johng.
Sorry if you are upset, but as Paolo has stated recently, this is not a democracy. LK8000 is Paolo's. He has been helped by some other developers, and we are all very pleased that between them they have produced probably the best gliding navigation software available, I have helped a little over the years with testing, as have a lot of others. We all do it for love, not money, the developers have given an inordinate amount of time over the last few years, and we are the beneficiaries. Paolo started this forum, and is also the moderator, and if he doesn't like something, he is perfectly entitled to delete it. The idea of porting to Android has been debated ad nauseam, Paolo has his reasons for not doing so, but I believe that XCsoar, which I used to use, does have that facility, and is available at exactly the same price as LK8000. |
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Coolwind
Moderator
Italy
7466 Posts |
Posted - 20/07/2012 : 22:42:18
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100% agree with you Dave!
Only, I would like to point out that the software we are all using here has been enhanced greatly by the other developers as well. I dont want to be considered the only developer, so let me say that AlphaLima-Ulli Heynen recently jumped in with many good ideas and implementations, like 3d airspaces, the traffic radar, the flight recorder, the vector icons for landables.. I mean we did spend many hundreds hours together and the v3.0 and next v4.0 is full of his ideas. I am probably forgetting some of them! But then what can we say, Mateusz made the OLC calculator, and for me that is an incredible job not only for the final result (accuracy and speed) but also for the timing, tight. Kalman, he made the airspaces again, and coworked with me for the grecord, and many other things, Richard for the unicode and many important stuff, Bruno for paragliders, there are thousands of hours of work beyond each release and I feel not comfortable to forget here all merits I am not remembering, and of course every great help start from small things initially (so eric is very welcome!).
I am giving credit were credit is due, it has never been an argument of discussion I hope.
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StoneLaughter
Pulcino
United Kingdom
6 Posts |
Posted - 21/07/2012 : 01:58:00
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Wow. I never dreamt that this thread would come back to haunt me; and so controversially too!
Paulo - I hope you don't hold me responsible for the upset; I meant no offence. Personally I *don't* understand the challenges of such a job, and I couldn't do it myself. I know for a fact that my hardware would work well with it (I have a HTC One X - possibly the best mobile phone on the market with only one or maybe two peers). However - without development effort I will never see it - and I agree that to ask you to do this alone is not reasonable.
So - whatever effort you put in is gold dust. Thank you for your time on this software. |
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high-flyer
Pulcino
17 Posts |
Posted - 21/07/2012 : 16:51:20
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| since xcsoar has been stealing so many great features from lk8000 why do you not just steal there Android thing and use it for LK?? then you don't have to do all work because they do it for you! |
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Coolwind
Moderator
Italy
7466 Posts |
Posted - 21/07/2012 : 18:37:12
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nono, xcsoar has not been "stealing" anything to us.
First, we were born out of the 2009 version of xcsoar and we still share a lot of code with them.
Then, good ideas are like seeds, and can grow up flowers in any other software.
but concerning android, our code base is now very different not only for the os dependencies but also for the way the software works in many critical parts.
And last but not least, we wouldnt be stealing anything too, because xcsoar has more than once offered code and sharing their stuff too.
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Edited by - Coolwind on 21/07/2012 18:41:07 |
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Marco from Hangar 5
Aquila imperiale
Netherlands
443 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2012 : 15:00:07
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quote:
Originally posted by StoneLaughter
Wow. I never dreamt that this thread would come back to haunt me; and so controversially too!
Paulo - I hope you don't hold me responsible for the upset; I meant no offence. Personally I *don't* understand the challenges of such a job, and I couldn't do it myself. I know for a fact that my hardware would work well with it (I have a HTC One X - possibly the best mobile phone on the market with only one or maybe two peers). However - without development effort I will never see it - and I agree that to ask you to do this alone is not reasonable.
So - whatever effort you put in is gold dust. Thank you for your time on this software.
I have checked out the One X at a local phone shop, I got out of the shop with the salesman, to check it in the bright sun, but the screen is not really better in the sun then my old HTC HD2 I have right now..
@Coolwind.. Great to hear that Windows Phone 8 allows native development again! and that LK8000 probably can be used just like on Windows Mobile.. This will open up LK8000 for even better hardware (faster processors, better displays, faster graphics). Now lets hope Nokia does not go bankrupt and comes up with some great phones.. The current Windows 7 Lumia 900 seems to have a very bright display.. but to be honest, they also said that about the HTC One X, which disapointed me greatly when I checked out at the local phonehouse store.
You know my standpoint of having my smartphone with me, those arguments are still very important to me. The ease of mind I know for sure my phone is fully charged when landing out is maybe the most important (connected with the glidertools Bt module power supply).
If its windows or Android, i do not really care, if Windows comes out of the woods with Nokia and comes up with really bright displayed smartphones, chances are increasing my next Smartphone will be a windows Phone 8 thingy..Long time it has looked like Windows would not survive on the smartphone market, and it is still not really going strong.. with the promisse that LK8000 will be ported someday to Android, therefore also looking out for Android devices.
But right now I am doing great with my HTC HD2, flown some nice cross countries this year and a very good competition flight June 10, flown a razor sharp final glide, thanks to LK8000!
So I am in no hurry at all, as long as my HTC HD2 keeps working.
Thank you
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Marco
BU (PH-588)
Mini Nimbus HS7, s/n 039
http://www.zweef.nl/
Zweefvliegclub Den Helder, NETHERLANDS |
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Marco from Hangar 5
Aquila imperiale
Netherlands
443 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2012 : 18:04:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Coolwind
I'd like to point out that so far no developer has considered dedicating time (in the past or for the future) to port LK to another OS.
So far, in fact, I have been alone doing this work, in parallel with normal software activity.
Compared to 1 year ago, LK is now no longer depending on DLL for Grecord validation, on Windows Registry (and we have a hell of good profiles, let me add), on a fixed screen orientation (can dynamically resize and change orientation), etc.
Personally I agree with the other developers.
Now let me explain something. If someone comes on this forum and says I - we are blind people not understanding what the people want, I can get angry for more than a reason.
1. The code is open source. Can you do it yourself?
2. I depends on what kind of pilots need the porting, really.
Condor pilots normally want it on their phones. Forget it, I dont give a damn for Condor simulator, LK was not thought for Condor: the user interface is made for real flight situations, not for hangar-desk use.
Agreed, but look at what loops and hoops Fatalbert has gone through to get LK8000 working on his Mirasol Android device.. Ground breaking work if you ask me. If Mirasol comes out with smaller displays and starts working for instance with HTC to have a first smartphone that is really sunreadable, and a battery life we only can dream about right now.. what will you do then? There are now TWO big issues to be solved in Smartphone development, and that is REALLy sunreadable displays and longer battery life.. Mirasol technology can provide a solution for both problems!
quote:
3. It depends on how good is the smartphone hardware compared to the newest devices (Holux and ODHitec), which also comes quite cheap.
4. There is people using old PNAs that dont want to buy a new device, but never compared their smartphone to them. They have no idea, so they speak nonsense not having a real idea of what is the difference. To this people I can only say: try to get one of these device from a friend, and you will not be talking about another device anymore.
I did, I was not impressed by the Holux61CS.. Yes it is quite readable in sunlight, but that is about it.. it is quite big and clunky for the size of the display, my HTC HD2 is half the size and weight, with the same size display, beside that it has its difficulties connecting it with on board power and external GPS.
quote:
5. A lot of time has been spent in the last year to bring people these new devices at this incredibly good prices. I too have dedicated a lot of time. These devices are not here for no particular reason: they are here because we have been dealing with manufacturers (not only distributors) for a long time. The same goes for GliderTools, manufacturing cables etc.
True, but from what I see is that those manufacturers/distributers, are just tweaking existing hardware, or assembling existing hardware in such way it is suitable for inside our cockpits. Dont you agree that Smartphone development is going much fatser, and is way more up to date? looking at processor power, smoother graphics, and so on.
quote:
6. Personally, I believe that Garmin is the example to follow, and I want to follow them on many good things:
A) Simplicity
B) Dedicated hardware
Garmin made a big loss on dedicated hardware for Car navigation last year..just like TomTom. If they were not into the very profittable nav systems for general aviation, and niche outdoor navigation (etrex) devices, they would have been bankrupt. The maket for seperate suction cup mounted boxes inside cars has crashed dramatically.. for 2 reasons: 1. SMARTPHONES.. 2. Car intergrated nav/radio/media systems... This FACT should for you be the biggest reason to have Android in you eye sight, within your final glide reach, so to speak.. (or Windows Phone 8, if they come out of the woods) the development for really new Windows CE/mobile devices has STOPPED, no new processors, no new motherboards, no new sun readable displays (like Mirasol) will be developped for CE/Mobile.. at some point Android and/or windows Phone 8 devices will put the Holux and vertica in the shade on all aspects you point out here are so important for us... I hope you are prepared for that because I think that point will come sooner then we all think right now.
quote:
Since I decide myself how to invest my time, and I dont have to justify it (except that me, ulli, bruno, kalman, mat , richard etc have always been discussing all of this by mail, and we do all agree on the final purpose).
Porting to Android and/or Windows Phone 8, should not change anything about that final purpose.. providing the best tactical navigation aid there is.. But as soon as it is ready for porting to Android, please do not hesitate to do so, it will open up LK8000 for some great devices (like the Mirasol e-reader of Fatalbert!)
quote:
7. Despite of what someone may believe, LK8000 is widely used and accepted by pilots, and many thousands people is still downloading and installing it on PNAs. So it is out of any question the fact that we do have a large audience appreciating our strategy, and this audience using old PNAs they bought for a few dozens dollars have a choice to upgrade to something definitive for many years. I am confident this will happen. Pilots with no money to spend for a 200 euro PNA will still be able to use their android phones with other software.
Now 2 years ago I tried to aquire a HP314, and was nowhere to find on ebay! (now I am glad, because in stead I bought my HTC HD2, which is much better!) So the above statement is not so true anymore, these old PNA's end up in the garbage bin more and more, in stead of reselling it on ebay..no one want to have a beat up old PNA that can do the same as a Smartphone.. except for a few crazy glider pilots maybe, but the potential sellers do not know that and throw it away, thinking they cant sell it anyways because it is old and way out of date.
For me it was not a matter of money, I told you before that its practical use beside the LK8000 navigation makes it very handy to have it with you inside the cockpit.. Before that I thought just like you, Coolwind. (I do not need it, it is not suitable for navigation, expensive) But I found out when I started to use the Smartphone as an instrument in the cockpit in 2011 with the intention to be a temporary solution.. (I was still looking for a HP314) it comes very handy to have one!.. Well, you know my arguments, right?
1. Battery allways charged because of connection with on board 2x 12V batteries (ease of mind!) .
2. Mobile Internet (facebook, twitter.. nice for the retrieval crew and people at home)
3. Google maps or TomTom for finding the nearest address and SMS this to the retrieval crew.
4. Knowing the device inside out, because I use it every day.
5. Before the flight able to check the latest weather updates, radars for showers, satelite images, via mobile internet (more then once I have changed my task just minutes before take off because of the weather)
6. Not dedicated for flight only, so (way) more value for money (but this is the least important.. to me anyways).
So in my view to keep with dedicated devices like Holux and Vertica, is Only the sun readable displays they have.. Once smartphones come out with better displays then the holux/vertica.. your arguments drop to the abyss of futility...
quote:
8. Windows Phone 8 is coming, and it supports native development. It seems pretty easy to port LK there, and immediate.
This is exciting news! I hope this will work, so I can keep a Smartphone as a nav aid.. because the HTC HD2 has not an eternal life eather.
quote:
9. No matter of windows 8, I am still cleaning up code, toward porting capability. But I do this alone.
I wish I was a programmer, I would have bought a Android device myself and help you out porting.. but regrettably I am just an aircraft interiors engineer, and have no idea about software programming.. isnt there a programmer out there who sees it just like me? am I the only one?
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Marco
BU (PH-588)
Mini Nimbus HS7, s/n 039
http://www.zweef.nl/
Zweefvliegclub Den Helder, NETHERLANDS |
Edited by - Marco from Hangar 5 on 22/07/2012 18:26:45 |
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Coolwind
Moderator
Italy
7466 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2012 : 18:34:03
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You said
"Now 2 years ago I tried to aquire a HP314, and was nowhere to find on ebay! (now I am glad, because in stead I bought my HTC HD2, which is much better!) So the above statement is not so true anymore, these old PNA's end up in the garbage bin more and more, in stead of reselling it on ebay"
I reply: enter a shop, and buy them. I am not talking about buying second hand hardware like for dell streak.
For the rest, it is clear you havent flown with a new device, and so you are still talking about your HTC.
Let's close it here, marco.
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Android