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davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1620 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2015 :  10:06:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Currently my V2 device configuration is Dev A Internal, Dev B Ilec SN10. The SN10 adds sentences, including baro altitude. The config does not work correctly if A and B are changed over.
If I now replace the dedicated SN10 gps with Flarm, the SN10 will pass through all the Flarm data to the V2, after a reset to 19200 baud.
Do I need to change the V2 device configuration, or will LK8000 automatically recognise Flarm via the SN10, just as if it was connected directly? The SN10 derived baro alt will no longer be needed, as this will now come from the Flarm datastream.

Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2015 :  13:34:25  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Flarm nmea sentences are always detected and used if the device is also providing gps data. So it should work immediately.
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davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1620 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2015 :  13:59:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Paolo.
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davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1620 Posts

Posted - 16/10/2015 :  11:36:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just trying to get it all clear in my head, due to the weather only managed one flight so far, with the setup as above, Flarm is connected to the SN10, which in turn is connected to the V2/LK8000 via a GG interface. Device A is Internal, Device B is SN10.This setup has worked OK for 18 months using a Garmin gps, which has now been changed for the Flarm.
The igc log file from LK8000 is exactly like the ones we have always had.
The igc log file from the Flarm SD card has lots of other lines in it, obviously generated by the Flarm, and also has the MOP figures on the end of the B records.
The SN10 should pass through all the sentences it gets from the gps (Flarm), so either it is not doing so, or LK8000 does not record this aditional information. I did expect to see the MOP figures at least on the LK8000 log file.
Would it be better to change A and B over so that the SN10 is Device A, though this did not work well previously.
Also comparing B records with the same time stamp, they are slightly different.
B1216005314865N00148253WA0088100946 LK8000 file
B1216005314872N00148276WA008770098101407001 Flarm file
Flarm was calibrated recently and was 3m high at the above height, however I thought that LK8000 prioritised data from Flarm, but it seems that the recorded baro altitude by LK8000, is different to that recorded by Flarm, and so can only have come from the SN10 which also outputs it.
I shall run the NMEA log next time.

Any comments or suggestions please?
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davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1620 Posts

Posted - 22/10/2015 :  10:15:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No comments?
Still not managed to fly yet, but my syndicate partner reports that, although Flarm itself is operating correctly, and Flarm traffic is showing on LK8000 and can be interrogated, the SN10 warns that it has no Flarm data. Yet LK8000 gets its Flarm data through the SN10!
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 22/10/2015 :  13:24:24  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hard to say whats going on..
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steveb
Pulcino

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 23/10/2015 :  04:22:06  Show Profile  Visit steveb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Dave,
I just bought a SN-10B and a Godard cable to run a Flarm-Sn10-Oudie/LK8000 system. All wired and ready to go. No Flarm on the oudie? After playing with settings, (I don't get the port settings in LK8000) I notice your post about no Flarm on the SN-10. Me too. I wonder if the baud setting on the Flarm is wrong. I get a new Config file from the Flarm web site and now I have GPS/Flarm data on the SN-10 and the Oudie!
Old settings
$PFLAC,S,NMEAOUT2,1
$PFLAC,S,BAUD2,2
$PFLAC,S,NMEAOUT1,1
$PFLAC,S,BAUD1,2
New settings
$PFLAC,S,NMEAOUT2,41
$PFLAC,S,BAUD2,2
$PFLAC,S,NMEAOUT1,41
$PFLAC,S,BAUD1,2
I don't know what the difference is on the 1 or 41 but it worked. Now if I could just get the Oudie to "see" the SN-10 data. (winds, are the important ones, and MC settings)
My LK8000 Device settings are:
Device A Internal
Device B SN-10 Port 4 19200 baud and 8 bit
This gets me Flarm traffic and Baro altitude on the Oudie.

Steve
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davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1620 Posts

Posted - 23/10/2015 :  09:46:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Steve
that's interesting because a) my Config file does not repeat the 2 sentences as your's seems to, and b) I have less at the end of the lines. This is what arrived after filling in the on-line form. I also checked that the values were correct according to the Flarm dataport publication.
$PFLAC,S,NMEAOUT,1 (1 is output all sentences)
$PFLAC,S,BAUD,2 (2 is 19,200)
Everything is set to 19,200 baud. As Flarm does get through to LK8000, I am wondering if the SN10B is giving a spurious warniing about no Flarm data. I notice on the changelog that there are several fixes about messages including Flarm, so next job is to update the SN10 to the latest 2.40 software, even though it has been Flarm compatible for years.
I note that you have configured your devices in the same order as mine, but I am going to try switching them the other way round. I suspect that, as explained in my first post, LK8000, is logging position from the Internal and adding baro alt from either the SN10 (as it did before adding Flarm), or from the Flarm, and of course Flarm is logging it's own data, as you would expect. This would explain the slightly different data at the same timestamp. Hopefully the other way round LK8000 will log the same data as the Flarm, assuming that Flarm data is prioritised, because it will be getting 2 baro alts (Flarm and SN10). Then Internal should only be used if Flarm is lost.
That still leaves the difference in Config file to explain, is yours PowerFlarm, mine is SwissFlarm?
In fact, I am not at all concerned about the SN10 actually displaying Flarm traffic,, I shall use LK8000 for that, I don't find the SN10 user friendly for switching pages, so I only use it as a vario and for STF, LK8000 does all the rest better in my opinion. I just don't like unexplained anomalies.
Dave
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davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1620 Posts

Posted - 23/10/2015 :  15:30:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Updated the SN10 to v 2.40 this morning, also changed over Device A and B, so that the SN10 (and so the Flarm data) is Device A. Not flown, but on the ground everything seemed to work OK, getting Flarm traffic showing on both the SN10 and LK8000.
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steveb
Pulcino

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 23/10/2015 :  23:27:02  Show Profile  Visit steveb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The 2 repeating lines are for the RJ-45 (Butterfly Display) and DB-9 (SN-10/Oudie) connectors and are found in all the config files I have.
After playing with the settings more I now have a set up of:
Device A Generic Port 1
Device B SN-10 Port 4
The Flarm info is available on both the SN-10 and the Oudie. I'm still not getting, and I don't understand why, SN-10 info on the Oudie. Right now this just means I'll have to set the MC on the Oudie. I'll have to fix this if I want the SN-10 winds, and MC, to show on the Oudie.
Any suggestions on the SN-10 Data to Oudie?
Steve
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davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1620 Posts

Posted - 24/10/2015 :  10:37:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Assume you are running LK8000 on the Oudie, otherwise you wouldn't be on this forum. Have you configured LK8000 to use External Wind, and Baro Altitude?
My original setup, pre Flarm was a Garmin TX connected to the SN10 via the green wire. All grounds were common. I then used a GliderGuider interface cable that connected to the SN10 Panel Cable using the 9 pin D sub. The interface also had 12v + and - feed, and a cable with a mini usb to connect into the V2, all at that time running at 4800 baud. After ticking the PDA output box on Options 2 this gave SN10 baro alt and wind to LK8000. It should not matter which way round the Devices are, as LK8000 will still add the additional data. The SN10 also adds a polar correction sentance. Have you got the SN10 resources? This gives lots of useful info, and gives a sample of the output sentences. You can also check what you are getting by using the LK8000 NMEA logger.
All I have done now, apart from the update, is substitute the Flarm for the Garmin, and change everything to 19,200.
Dave

Edited by - davesalmon on 24/10/2015 12:26:33
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steveb
Pulcino

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 28/10/2015 :  00:33:10  Show Profile  Visit steveb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'll have to check out the NMEA logger. I don't have the Oudie/LK8000 set for external winds. I wanted to check how well the Oudie matched the SN10. They did sometimes when circling, as expected. Maybe the SN10 is sending data, but I don't get the message box at start up like I did when I had a LX V7 vario connected. Do you get a message that "SN10 Detected"? Also changing the MC setting doesn't change the Oudie. Changing it on the V7 did change the Oudie so that's how I'm judging that they are not talking. I do get the "Baro Altitude" messaage, I assume from the Flarm.
Steve
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davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1620 Posts

Posted - 28/10/2015 :  12:04:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Before connecting the SN10 and the V2/LK I found that the wind readout was very similar on both. Not sure how the SN10 calculates it, but it does have airspeed, and a reputation for accurate wind. It also changes relatively quickly, whereas LK sometimes takes a long time to give a readout from circling, which also is not very good in wave. So when I connected the two, I changed to external wind from the SN10.
I have never seen "SN10 detected", I don't think there is such a message, but BF (before Flarm), it was obvious from the baro alt readout, as the SN10 was the only source available.
Currently (see my other posting) I am not sure whether I am getting Flarm or SN10 baro alt, as both are available, but the setup is new, and due to the atrocious weather in the UK, I have not flown with it and logged the NMEA output. I do not think MC and tasks can be sent. The SN10/PNA connection is rather complicated I've found, you really need the Ilec SN10 Flight Computer Resources (download from Ilec) to have any idea what is going on and how connections must be made to avoid damage. There is a diagram showing how to hook up GPS FR or Flarm/SN10/PNA, but it also says that if you want the PNA to send declarations to the FR/Flarm, alternate, switched, ground use only connections are needed. I think that originally the SN10 was only designed to send limited data to a PDA/PNA, not to get anything back.
Dave
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steveb
Pulcino

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 29/10/2015 :  01:46:24  Show Profile  Visit steveb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Dave,
With external winds checked and no "SN10 detected" message the LK displayed winds are the same as he SN10 winds? Maybe there isn't a "SN10 detected" message like for the LX V7. Your post gives me an idea, if the Flarm is off (so no baro output) if I get a "Using Baro Alt" it has to be coming from the SN10. The connection cable I'm using is a commercial made cable from Cumulus Soaring (Goddard). It has 2 switches but the description is that they are for sending tasks to/from the Flarm/SN10. 2 switches 4 possible combinations and I haven't seen any change with the different positions. More testing to come. I hope you get to fly soon.
Steve
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steveb
Pulcino

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2015 :  01:44:27  Show Profile  Visit steveb's Homepage  Reply with Quote
DAve,
Have you been able to fly with the Flarm/SN10?V2 yet? If so do you see matching winds using External Winds on the V2? I have not tried External Winds as I see Vario "Disconnected" in Config/Info/Status page 2. If LK isn't seeing the SN10 no reason to set for External Winds.
I did do the test from above and with the SN10 on and Flarm off Lk says using GPS Altitude.
Still don't understand why LK isn't seeing the SN10, I shouldn't have to (I hope) speak/understand computer language to get this to work.
Steve
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davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1620 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2015 :  10:10:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes I did fly 2/3 weeks ago, not since, and got wind from the SN10. I have never looked at Status to see if vario connected or not, to be honest, never noticed that was there. If I get baro alt, it is connected. Ignore what Status says, you cannot get External Wind unless you select it.
If Flarm is the gps source for the SN10, and Flarm is off, then the gps source has to be the internal gps in the Oudie.
To go back to basics, no you do not need to understand computer language, I don't. This is my setup.
All instruments and devices have a common ground. The Tx wire from Flarm is connected to the Rx (green) wire coming from the SN10 panel cable connector. Nothing connected to the Tx wire(yellow) coming from the panel connector. The GliderGuider interface cable then connects to the panel connector 9pin D sub, it also connects to 12v power, and to the V2 with the mini usb. Those are all the hardware connections, and this setup will only allow data from the Flarm, not back, ie no task to Flarm.
The SN10 is then configured to give NMEA output at 19200, PDA output enabled.
LK8000 is configured to use Baro Alt, External winds, and Flarm on map enabled. Device A is Ilec SN10 - COM7 (Oudie might be a different port)-19200, Device B is Internal.
I will check if the vario shows connected or not in Status, don't need to fly for that, but weather is still crap here.
My question about which baro alt was being used was because there are 2 available, I think Flarm is prioritised, but can't be sure until flying with NMEA log running, so that the actual sentences can be checked.
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