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 Change requests and new features list
 mockup "one-view-circling-aid"
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ernst-dieter
Aquilotto

Germany
203 Posts

Posted - 20/09/2015 :  15:19:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello, I thought a little about a new "one-view-circling-aid" and
made a mockup for discussion.

What do you think?

davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1620 Posts

Posted - 20/09/2015 :  23:22:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Ernst-Dieter

I think it would be good if we can come up with something better than we have now. One current problem is time lag, you move an appreciable distance round the circle in the 1 sec update time, so is this something that can be improved. Another problem is with th sound, not the graphics, as I have posted about a long time ago. The straightening sound is very unreliable, sometimes it seems to work, but often it tells you to straighten up 180 deg from what your own thermalling analysis says, so much so that I have virtually given up on it, because I don't trust it.
One point, is the arrow for optimum centre relocation actually telling us anything useful, or isn't the go straight arrow giving us all we need, KISS, I don't know if that translates into German.
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Marco from Hangar 5
Pterodattilo

Netherlands
886 Posts

Posted - 21/09/2015 :  00:27:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, I remember similar discussions in the past of having a thermal helper or not, and the conclusion was it would not be very helpfull because of the delays in the system.. I have the same experience as Dave that the beeps are 180 degrees off.

As a way of presentation I think it is a good idea, but I would not include the arrows, the glider symbol and the wind arrow that should be present in the lower left corner, would give us enough directional information. The yellow dot should coincide with the go-straight-beep, right? But as said by Dave, this would only work if we could straight out the timing issues. Difficulty is that with every hardware configuration this is different. Maybe with a good fast vario module it would work OK, but with my config with only the red box data, it would be useless.

Marco
BU (PH-588)
Mini Nimbus HS7, s/n 039
http://www.zweef.nl/
Zweefvliegcentrum Noordkop, NETHERLANDS
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ASMiller
Pulcino

United Kingdom
63 Posts

Posted - 23/09/2015 :  17:25:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looks interesting.
I am a heavy user of the current thermal display & regard it as essential.
In particular, I value the display of my very recent track and where, in comparison, the system thinks the core is.

How does your proposal compare with the circle of blobs (mouse droppings?) that LX Navigation currently offer?
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ernst-dieter
Aquilotto

Germany
203 Posts

Posted - 23/09/2015 :  18:48:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
>>>How does your proposal compare with the circle of blobs (mouse droppings?) that LX Navigation currently offer?<<<

The circle of blobs (lx navigation) force you to evaluate them and estimate then all the things you get from this mockup with

only "one view"

(1) From the degree of roundness you see good you have centered
(2) From the diameter you see the quality of the thermal
(3) The arrows (may be one is sufficient) give you
A) a measure how much to relocate,
B) in which direction to relocate and
C) when starting to relocate
(4) When to start relocation is graphically supported by the pie chart of your current position relative to the relocation point.

All these informations you can take with "one view" only, try it :-)

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davesalmon
Pterodattilo

United Kingdom
1620 Posts

Posted - 23/09/2015 :  19:32:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would certainly like to give something like this a try. How about this to get round the timing delay. When thermalling, one method is to note the point of best indicated lift, then straighten a little before getting there, next time round, so as to allow for the vario lag. The amount depends on speed, bank, vario time constant etc. So how about being able to adjust the position of the "go straight arrow" backwards against the direction of turn. Once set, it will probably need very little further adjustment.
Can we also have some of that 5m lift here in the UK please!
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ernst-dieter
Aquilotto

Germany
203 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2015 :  09:31:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Timing delay is a point of course. I do not know how to deal with it seriously because also a dedicated variometer may be somethat late, the modern ones are better in this regard. Without a connected e-vario circling refinement support by a computer does not make much sense IMHO. If you need to take GPS-lag into account (which can be done by estimation) you better use the proofed butt-sensitivity (Is this correctly expressed (?), I am a german )

Yes, sometimes in spring we meet here in the plains of Mecklenburgia (North East Germany) these rare 5m/s thermals, usually we are very pleased with 2m/s.
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