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 PLUGIN NO MORE SUPPORTED
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 06/03/2015 :  02:35:16  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Starting from next 5.0b version, the plugin for paragliders is no longer supported. If you need the plugin, keep version 5.0a.
Only a very limited number of users ( a few hundreds ) are using the plugin, and for linux it would require a long work, which is not possible.
Furthermore, IGC has asked to cease distributing LK with several keys, and I am really tired of this situation happening only to please a few people.

parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo

Portugal
1864 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2015 :  13:38:58  Show Profile  Visit parapenT1sta's Homepage  Click to see parapenT1sta's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I think the "few people" that you are talking about are ALL UK pilots who use LK8000.
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cloudsun9
Pulcino

United Kingdom
58 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2015 :  14:26:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ouch!
But counting current (wince) users of the plugin will not give a number for future (linux) users.
I am not a wince user but a linux user and there are many other new and returning users for LK8000 + Kobo.
Someone suggested elsewhere that if this really is such a special case then a commercially produced plugin might be a good idea.
I looked on http://www.lk8000.it and didn't see a way to contribute funds to the project.
I would make a contribution tagged "Kobo IGC Plugin" if there was. Perhaps others would too.
Would that help?

Cloudsun9
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2015 :  15:19:07  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not concerning the plugin. We can no longer support it. We should create a dedicated standalone software for flight recording. Validate the 3 letters code with all contests (a nightmare) and pay around 300 euro for OLC. And in the end the FAI CIVL may still ask us to change something, as it happened a few weeks ago.
I have enough.
I spent so much time on this stupid problem! And paragliders's FAI is now talking about a "certified" logger, like for gliders.
What a stupid idea! While glider's pilots are massively using non-certified loggers (like seeyou mobile, xcsoar, lk8000 etc.) paragliders will go back in time by 20 years, and look the prices of recording equipment (required mandatory aboard) to rise by 10 times.
We are only loosing our time trying to accomplish some rule taken unlateraly by non-illuminated people.
Tell paragliders to DROP this people and ask for easy way, not complicating the life of pilots.
But since this people is not elected nor voted by the flying mass, the only possible move is: ignore their contests.
Use LK with no plugin.

p.s.
Probably correct, the number of people using plugin is around 400.
Out of over 20.000. In other words, over 98% of people do not give a damn about the plugin.

Edited by - Coolwind on 07/03/2015 15:22:19
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parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo

Portugal
1864 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2015 :  15:29:00  Show Profile  Visit parapenT1sta's Homepage  Click to see parapenT1sta's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Are 20.000 only paragliding pilots?

I think we can raise funds to pay those $300, if you want to.

Edited by - parapenT1sta on 07/03/2015 15:29:41
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2015 :  16:18:40  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think it is easier if this request is seen as a separate project.
We can no longer have our three letters code (XLK) signing with different keys depending on the contest.
FAI CIVL has asked us to stop doing it, and this is the end of the story.

A new flight logger should be written, using non-gpl code, thus keeping the capability to be non-open source which is mandatory in order to keep the signing key hidden in the code, for what this is worth.
Those who need to send their flights to online contests requiring non-public key signatures should in my opinion use dedicated flight hardware such as Flytec, Digifly , etc.

I must disable the old plugin shortly, by releasing the hidden signature key to the public, and thus invalidating the existing validators.
Sorry but it is no longer possible to use different signatures for the same three letters code of FAI.
Maybe someone want to write a non-opensource software and do it for free, and then contact each online contest and see individually how to sign for them, how to accomplish each desired signing method etc. Very long work, for a few hundreds people in the world.


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parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo

Portugal
1864 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2015 :  16:47:49  Show Profile  Visit parapenT1sta's Homepage  Click to see parapenT1sta's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Or do you think having GPSDUMP doing the job is an alternative?
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dukeofted
New Entry

2 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2015 :  19:04:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ouch! I've been using LK8000 on a Funtrek 130 for the last few years as my main gps and it has been brilliant. Can you confirm that the plugin will still function with version 5.0a or will it stop working in future? I don't want to stop using LK8000 as I love it but I need to be able to record a valid igc file.
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2015 :  20:37:36  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
it depends on how online contests are moving on this matter. I can leave the 5.0a plugin working until there are no complaints.
I still dont know who is really using the plugin validation, among online contests.
Gpsdump is extracting the log from external hardware, so in reality it is validating a Flytec, etc.
But if everything goes ahead as I have been told, for contests paragliders will have to buy dedicated flight recorders, and I have never seen a cheap flight recorder. bye bye gpsdump. You ought to say something to fai civl, not to me.
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Jaros
Pulcino

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2015 :  20:47:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Coolwind
Tell paragliders to DROP this people and ask for easy way, not complicating the life of pilots.



Paulo,
can we get look into these documents, correspondence, names.
Is there official letter about requirements from them against lk8000 so we can look into as community and take action.

regards
Jarek
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2015 :  23:32:20  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well I was referring to the people that are currently promoting official (certified) flight recorders for Paragliders.
I was told about it, but I did not ask. I guess there is some meeting report out there in FAI.
I will look and tell you.
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bo.
Pterodattilo

843 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2015 :  19:28:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TiGuy82

Or do you think having GPSDUMP doing the job is an alternative?



The android version of GPS dump can be used as a logger on an android device. I think it will give a signed igc file. Possibly it could run alongside Lk8000 (when or if available on android ) or xcsoar. But there is no win ce or Linux version with logger functionality at the moment.
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2015 :  20:26:35  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Maybe we can keep the 5.0 compatible, but for sure there is no Linux plugin. I need a few days to know.
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rjbungay
Pulcino

12 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2015 :  12:45:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Paolo

Losing the plugin will be a big setback for PG competition and leagues. I can also see this having other adverse affects on the development of hardware to run LK8000 such as the V3. Without the plugin and the ability to have widely accepted IGC files there will be less drive to develop this hardware and pilots will be forced to use the traditional instrument manufacturers for this type of flight instrument such as C-pilot and Oudie3.

Please reconsider the plugin situation for WinCE devices. Linux devices could make use of the GPSdump style logger?
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Coolwind
Moderator

Italy
8957 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2015 :  13:47:03  Show Profile  Visit Coolwind's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think we must in first place preserve the validation of flights at FAI CIVL. At this stage, we are risking to have validation only of plugin flights. FAI CIVL does not require the plugin. We are settled with them, absolutely!
There are at least one (UK) online contest that do not accept the FAI CIVL validation if opensource software are involved.
So far we manage with them using the plugin, but in the future it is going to be hard to keep it going.

Does this make sense to you?

p.s.
We are opensource, and the plugin is an hack to accomplish an almost-impossible task. But we knew it could not last forever.

Edited by - Coolwind on 09/03/2015 13:48:19
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MartinB
Pulcino

12 Posts

Posted - 14/03/2015 :  20:44:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I asked Stein the developer of GpsDump about gpsdump signing the igc files and he said the data would have to be residing in memory at the time gpsdump reads it. I know LK normally writes out the igc files to the SD card but are they still in memory on the Kobo?
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