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parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo
Portugal
1866 Posts |
 Posted - 17/10/2009 : 15:57:22
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Paolo,
A paragliding pilot that is using LK8000 ask me to ask you if is possible to develop a script to find thermals for a certain spot using an older log.
I Don't know if you understand his idea. But is basically to run some script to mark thermals as waypoints (for example) to a certain spot or to all spots  . Create a thermal database  |
Edited by - parapenT1sta on 17/10/2009 16:00:44 |
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Condor Indomavel
Pulcino
Portugal
39 Posts |
Posted - 17/10/2009 : 16:35:18
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| I think it would be an excellent idea, to take this recurse data. It would be very useful to all pilots who fly in that location. |
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Coolwind
Moderator
Italy
8957 Posts |
Posted - 17/10/2009 : 16:50:07
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It's something I have been working on in the past for gliders..
I think that the best thing is to create a waypoint database for thermals, and use it.
We need to distinguish thermals from waypoints, of course.
That's something I can add when I add seeyou .cup support and other waypoint file formats.
Currently I am trying to make the zoom levels for paragliders working correct! |
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bo.
Pterodattilo
843 Posts |
Posted - 18/10/2009 : 02:21:46
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I think this instrument has such a database, but i could not find a description now:
http://www.aircotec.com/cms/front_content.php?idcat=39&idart=12&client=1&lang=2
I have heard good things about that particular solution. It does not simply use thermals as a waypoint, wind direction and drift is also considered, similarly to the handling of thermals in XCS. To add new thermals, you need to manually select the best thermals from your flight to save them to the database. And its also possible to exchange thermal databases among pilots.
It could be a nice thing to implement in LK8k. |
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Michel
Pulcino
79 Posts |
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Coolwind
Moderator
Italy
8957 Posts |
Posted - 18/10/2009 : 21:05:17
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If I am not wrong, xcs uses the thermal source as primary data to apply wind and sun .
So all we need is a good thermal database with the correct thermal point on ground, more or less of course. |
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bo.
Pterodattilo
843 Posts |
Posted - 18/10/2009 : 23:18:47
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What we need then is a tool in XCS to select the good thermal sources, and to store it as a separate file that can easily be shared among local pilots. Maybe an automatised tool (for PC?) to scan multiple tracklogs could be built too, for efficient development of thermal databases? Some search criteria could probably be applied to pick the god thermal sources.
Is sun angle also considered in XCS, and how? |
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Michel
Pulcino
79 Posts |
Posted - 19/10/2009 : 18:44:49
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Many thermals only occur with a particular wind direction. Not taking this into account when making a thermal database may lead to false indications.
As a cloud (cover) can prevent or trigger a thermal it is also a determinant but difficult to incorporate. |
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parapenT1sta
Pterodattilo
Portugal
1866 Posts |
Posted - 19/10/2009 : 21:15:51
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Michel, but I think this feature could be used only for a simple information that can be helpful in some cases...
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Michel
Pulcino
79 Posts |
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davesalmon
Pterodattilo
United Kingdom
1650 Posts |
Posted - 19/10/2009 : 23:13:03
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I had this facility in WinPilot before changing to XCSoar. I found it totally useless, and I do fly in hilly terrain.
Dave |
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dgtrecentowl
Aquila imperiale
Italy
633 Posts |
Posted - 19/10/2009 : 23:25:48
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I'm in accord with Dave
Hi
Mino
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Michel
Pulcino
79 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2009 : 19:18:00
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Dave,
Concerning an historical thermal database you might be right. Although, as everybody knows, many thermals are located often at the same spot. Can you elaborate more on your experiences? For instance, how large was your database, under which weather conditions was it made, and did it never work or only with certain weather conditions.
Concerning an almost realtime thermal database, as paolo is suggesting using flarm data, I would imagine that the chance of finding a useful thermal, which has only just minutes before been used by another glider, is a lot bigger. What do you think?
I'm looking forward to virtual thermal waypoints which, just as normal waypoints, change color if you can reach them or not using a certain mc value. Their strenght and the altitude another glider picked it up might be useful to know before doing a goto. It might also be nice when the location of the virtual thermal waypoint is corrected for the arrival altitude (mc value) and winddrift (winddirection/windspeed/thermal strenght) so that when somebody picked it up at 350 meters and I'm planning to arrive at 1200 meters I can fly directly to it.
Of course the possibility of turning them on and off on screen, as you suggest, must be there. Otherwise there will be too much input for the pilot.
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davesalmon
Pterodattilo
United Kingdom
1650 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2009 : 13:38:14
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I can't be very specific because this was 5 or 6 years ago, but I complied a database from quite a lot of flights on thermal soaring days. Our local area is hilly, not mountainous, but there are lots of triggers.
WinPilot tracked back to the trigger point,taking into account the time of day (sun position), wind for thermal drift, and height, and so "predicted" where you are likely to meet a thermal at your current height,in present wind direction, and time of day.It sounds good, but from memory it never, ever worked, and cluttered up the screen.
A realtime database using Flarm would no doubt work, but it raises a number of issues like, is it ethical, comps could become just a lead and follow, it may encourage everyone into the same thermals, almost the opposite of what Flarm is about, Flarm may even be encouraged to filter data to prevent it being used for this purpose, or the best pilots may switch it off.
If we are not careful it could become like flying Condor with the thermal markers, and is that what we really want? I am trying to be devil's advocate here, as I said to Johnny Wharrington several years ago, please don't add features just because you can.
Regards
Dave |
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bo.
Pterodattilo
843 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2009 : 13:45:32
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| I know of paraglider piots who are very enthusiastic about a similar thermal database in Aircotec flight instruments (used mostly by PG/HG pilots). But I have no experience with this instrument myself. |
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davesalmon
Pterodattilo
United Kingdom
1650 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2009 : 13:46:36
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Literally a minute after posting I found this topic being discussed re the LX8000, on gliderpilot.net. Apparently there is already a "stealth" mode to prevent this happening.
Dave |
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Topic |
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Thermals database