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 (LOW) XCSOAR Blue arrow problem

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MPusz Posted - 11/01/2010 : 08:05:04
According to the XCSoar manual blue arrow (when visible in LK8000) should account for "Drift during climb". I do not think it works correctly. Please check following scenario:
1. Click goto on a distant waypoint (more than 100km away)
2. Set a strong side wind (you should see a blue arrow now deviated from desired course)
3. Now start to increase altitude. While doing that I would expect that the arrow would turn to the waypoint's direction (because shorter time is needed in circing). The result I get is that arrow disapears when the waypoint becomes reachable, but until than it doesn't move.
If I am a few meters below the final glide slope I would have glide for hours in a wrong direction if I would choose to circle at the end of the cruise. Doing that I would do much longer way home.

What is your opinion on that?
15   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Coolwind Posted - 07/01/2013 : 21:16:56
I think it was the division by zero, but I am not sure.
brunotl Posted - 07/01/2013 : 19:25:24
Hi Eric,

I have Enabled, but not really tested ... sorry
eric.carden Posted - 07/01/2013 : 18:15:56
quote:
Originally posted by Coolwind

I have spotted a critical problem in the code there, it should be fixed, and we can test for next version.
What is the option defined for this?


Hi Paolo,

What's this critical problem? I'll be glad to try to fix it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the option defined for this", but if you mean where's the configuration setting for this, then the answer is that there isn't one. This is just a fix to make the blue arrow work like intended - not an optional way for it to work.

Thanks,

Eric
eric.carden Posted - 07/01/2013 : 18:11:58
quote:
Originally posted by brunotl

maybe it's time to release ....



Hi Bruno,

Have you enabled this yourself and tested yet? I've been using it for almost nine months (~80 hours) with no problems. Of course, there's no way I've tested every possible scenario. More testers equals more thorough testing. :-)

Eric
Coolwind Posted - 30/12/2012 : 15:08:32
I have spotted a critical problem in the code there, it should be fixed, and we can test for next version.
What is the option defined for this?
brunotl Posted - 30/12/2012 : 00:48:13
maybe it's time to release ....
eric.carden Posted - 23/07/2012 : 18:09:17
Paolo just merged this change (thanks, Paolo), but he disabled it (in options.h). Developers, enable this if you wish, and report back here after testing it. I've been using it for over three months (~30 flight hours) with no problems. (Non-developers, you have no way to test this until it gets "enabled" and released in a beta version.)

Eric
MPusz Posted - 18/05/2012 : 08:53:19
To me it looks like Eric did a good job fixing the blue arrow problem that was there from old times. It should help a lot in planing a flight to the waypoint.
eric.carden Posted - 16/05/2012 : 15:45:47
quote:
Originally posted by TiGuy82

I think you should post images with the same time, position... but using different versions of LK8000. On those pictures we have almost 8 minutes difference...

Such photos would look the same... except for the time of day, which has no effect on the direction of the blue arrow.
parapenT1sta Posted - 16/05/2012 : 05:47:09
Eric,

I think you should post images with the same time, position... but using different versions of LK8000. On those pictures we have almost 8 minutes difference...

AlphaLima Posted - 14/05/2012 : 13:42:23
quote:
Originally posted by Coolwind

Maybe that is working in flatlands with wind. In the mountains with winds you dont fly following a blue indicator, and you are not drifted kms downwind a mountain. Never happened to me, since it seems that the thermals are "sticky" to the mountain tops, and bended only.



Yes it is useful in the flatland's. On Saturday I had a final glide of 40km with 35km crosswind. The blue arrow showed the best heading with respect to wind and it was good to see how the impact was. However it does not make sense to make it verry accurate +/-5° or +/- 10% is far enugh, also for GA this could be interesting. I'm not sure if the impact of speed makes a big difference than. BTW I see no reason why the blue arrow only exist in TASK should be available for every of the(multi) target's.
AL
bo. Posted - 14/05/2012 : 12:25:04
quote:
Originally posted by eric.carden

[quote]
You pretty much nailed it, Bo! :-) The only thing you're missing isn't entirely intuitive. The task arrival altitude (~-150m in this case) is how high you'd be relative to your safety arrival altitude if you went on an ideal-speed glide (for the given MC setting) straight towards goal without finding any lift (or sink) on the way there.
...



Ok, good! We seem to have the same understanding of this feature. I did think about safety altitude, but rejected that, since I did no see the Safety alt. indicator below the arrival altitude (or was this added after 3.0b?). Are you sure that safety altitude applies here? It should only apply to Landables/Airports, unless of course you choose to also have safety altitude for all TPs.
Coolwind Posted - 14/05/2012 : 07:17:56
Maybe that is working in flatlands with wind. In the mountains with winds you dont fly following a blue indicator, and you are not drifted kms downwind a mountain. Never happened to me, since it seems that the thermals are "sticky" to the mountain tops, and bended only.
eric.carden Posted - 14/05/2012 : 00:32:52
quote:
Originally posted by bo.

Im curious about how these calculations are working, so I'll give it a try....

You pretty much nailed it, Bo! :-) The only thing you're missing isn't entirely intuitive. The task arrival altitude (~-150m in this case) is how high you'd be relative to your safety arrival altitude if you went on an ideal-speed glide (for the given MC setting) straight towards goal without finding any lift (or sink) on the way there. If you intend to gain this lacking altitude on the way to goal, though, you'll suffer a less-than-direct route (because of the wind and thermal drift) and will end up actually having to gain more than just 150m to make goal. The slower and lower-performance the glider, the weaker the thermals, and the stronger the crosswind; the more extra altitude you'll need to make goal.
eric.carden Posted - 14/05/2012 : 00:24:05
quote:
Originally posted by Coolwind

I strongly doubt that the second picture is showing a correct calculation for a paraglider.
7 miles away, at that speed, only 13 degrees correction in the wind?
You will be brought downwind faster than you can recalculate anything!

The purpose of the blue arrow is to point out the ideal TRACK, not the ideal HEADING. The ideal HEADING would indeed be much more than 13 degrees off a straight path to goal in this scenario.

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